Determining Monster Stats

[Meatboy]

In any edition of Dnd a creatures attributes have far reaching effects. Strong things hit harded, fast things are harder to hit and so on.
With that in mind i have never seen advice in DMG about determining attributes for monsters based on their level. This comes into play for me all the time because I love making monsters and also for all my homebrew d20 stuff.
Does anyone have advice or can point me in the direction of anything that might help?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

You put "any D&D" so you'll get a lot of answers.

The various DMGs do advise on stats, but only in 4e is it explicit.

In 3rd Edition and Pathfinder, plus related games (d20 Modern, for instance) there's suggestions on attack bonuses, damage, etc, which implies what your ability scores should be. Unfortunately the derived statistics often meant your monster would be incredibly strong in one area (eg grappling) and cripplingly weak in another area (eg Will save).

Before they changed the Monster Math, ability scores were pretty much set by level for 4e monsters, and these were high (16 + 1/2 level for key stat, 13 + 1/2 level for highest non-key stat of a defense pair). Then again, the effect of ability scores are pretty minimal. The new monster math removed even that. Ability scores influence your Fort/Ref/Will (and only slightly), but your AC, attack bonus and damage are based on level, role, and type of attacks. You just pick the ability scores that you think make sense. If you want a monster that can dodge really well, just give them an ability like Defensive Mobility.

In 5e, monster ability scores are far more important. Of course, this causes balance problems. (A monster with low Int will always fail Int-based saves. Fortunately there's only a few of these!)

 

[Meatboy]

yeah there never seems to be a uniform idea for abilities and monsters. In earlier editions it wasn't so bad because stats had such a small range and in fourth they pretty much decoupled ability scores from stats. I was just hoping that choose what you think fits or examine existing monsters isn't the only way.

 

[GMMichael]

There's no information for determining stats based on level because levels don't determine stats.

A monster's level, or his challenge rating, or his hit dice, should be determined after the monster is finished. The monster's stats, hit points, AC, saves, and special abilities all serve to increase level (with a technical exception for hit dice...).

If you're still dead-set on choosing level first, just look up monsters of that level in a monster manual, and use their stats as a guideline.

 

[Stormonu]

for 3E, the MM2 had really rough guidelines for physical ability scores based on size. Since size also tended to determine HD, that sort-of ties to level, but not by much.

Pathfinder has some guidelines in the encounter/monster design section where the total bonuses should end up, and other than 4E, it may be your best bet for getting help.

 

[howandwhy99]

[MENTION=40857]Meatboy[/MENTION], here's my best answer:

During the creation of something for the game, like a creature, you will always be able to play with the design to incorporate elements into it. Like a predetermined level, but also abilities, stats, and other stuff.

Now if you don't have a preset level you are building for, than you will take an accounting of the design at finish and determine the game structure's level. (You'll want to playtest it against other finished and comparably balanced works to really get a clearer picture too).

If you do have a preset level in mind, then your final steps will be puzzling the creation up, down, around, until you reach your goal. Depending on the scope of the game, and D&D does have one, this may not be possible. Not everything is covered as a suitable challenge in D&D. There's too hard and too easy. (Planet-Swallower the monster isn't going to shrink down to a suitable challenge level without major Glass Tiger-ing of it.)

3.x d20 creature creation uses derived stat rules, but I do believe Ability Scores were left out. Look at how the A.S. modifiers affect rolls and set DCs and you should be able to work out something. Someone else might even have some well tested measures. (Not me tho Ask Boz. Sorry I couldn't help more.)

 

[Meatboy]

Thanks guys! This is a tough area of game design for me. I appreciate the help.

 

[Celebrim]

In any edition of Dnd a creatures attributes have far reaching effects. Strong things hit harded, fast things are harder to hit and so on.
With that in mind i have never seen advice in DMG about determining attributes for monsters based on their level. This comes into play for me all the time because I love making monsters and also for all my homebrew d20 stuff.
Does anyone have advice or can point me in the direction of anything that might help?

It seems like either Monte or Sean wrote up a guide with the normal range of monster stats for a monster of a particular type and HD. Maybe it got printed in Dragon back in the old paper days just after the 3.0 MM release?