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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 906336" data-attributes="member: 4134">He got it wrong in the first post. I think he thought that fiends gate other fiends. But he clearly referred to the innate abilities of fiends. That works like summon monster.BTW: Your assumptions about gate aren't correct, either. You don't have to become visible in order to use gate with its call funktion.If you only want the creature to fight your enemy, it's usually an immediate task. This needs no payment of any kind. You just order it to do so, and it obeys. The creature won't care whether its master is invisible, or surrounded by a halo of blazing light. It obays, because the spell gives you control over it. And anything you cannot control won't have problems with invisibility, since it will have at least 35 HD (assuming you call a single creature, not several weaker ones) or is a unique being or even a deity. They probably can smell your power and are above judging the power of a being by it's visible appearance.If you have a more extensive service in mind, you do make a deal with the creature, and offer some sort of payment. But that won't be due before completion of the service. And, as I said before: The usually want live payment.So there's no need to end invisibility with a gate spell. Especially not to "lead the gated one in", since we have the spell for that, after all.So you are technically incorrect, and the encounters where they drop their invisibility aren't more believable/ interesting. The spell provides you with control over most of the creatures you call, without any need to bully the gated creature whatsoever, and if you cannot control the being, you better hide anyway, for your appearance will most likely be not so intimidating to the gated creature. Your "witty" comments about oranges or apples, or about horses won't help you with your argument at all.</blockquote>

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