D&D 3E/3.5 Devoted Defender and 3.5e

[Mephistopheles]

I think that is just the sort of interaction they were intended to have. Otherwise it makes either Harms Way or Defensive Strike pointless. You have to choose between either defending your charge or whacking someone, and you would pretty much always choose defending your charge in that case.

You may be right. We can only speculate about the intent of these rules. However, I don't think it is unreasonable to require the Devoted Defender to choose between using Harm's Way to make a guaranteed defense of his charge or using Defensive Strike to make a counterattack at his full attack bonus (with an additional bonus to the attack roll at higher levels, no less).

I also don't think it makes either of those abilities pointless. They are useful for different situations. If your charge is very weak then Harm's Way is going to be a better choice most of the time. If your charge isn't completely defenseless you may use Harm's Way to divert particularly potent attacks from your charge to yourself and Defensive Strike to gain additional attacks against those attacking your charge when the attacks are not particularly lethal. The Devoted Defender class feature I'd be more likely to give the pointless award to is Deflect Attack.

I agree that if the Devoted Defender wants to live up to the class name he will choose Harm's Way the majority of the time. But it's not as if denying the Devoted Defender the ability to make an AoO and follow up with a guaranteed defense of the charge that also undoes the original action that provoked the AoO is denying him the ability to retaliate altogether. In situations where Defensive Strike is a valid option the Defender will likely be able to make a full attack against whoever is attacking his charge in his turn.

I admit that a Devoted Defender with a single AoO to play with each round isn't going to break the game by getting a Defensive Strike and Harm's Way in response to a single attack on his charge. Unless you're dealing with high Dex Devoted Defenders with Combat Reflexes this discussion is perhaps a bit of overkill.

 

[kreynolds]

Unless you're dealing with high Dex Devoted Defenders with Combat Reflexes this discussion is perhaps a bit of overkill.

Even still, would attacking your charge with a full attack action provoke one AoO for the entire action or an AoO for each swing in the full attack action? My gut says the former, and if that's correct, the presence of Combat Reflexes is moot.

 

[kreynolds]

Also, two brought up an interesting scenario. Can Harm's Way be used against a spell attack that uses an attack roll? The description of Harm's Way merely states "attack" and "attack roll". This would include both melee and ranged attacks, but what about Melf's Acid Arrow or Polar Ray? Both are ranged attacks and require attack rolls, but being spells, should they be covered by Harm's Way?

 

[Greybar]

color me another interested GM with a Devoted Defender player.

Hmm... by the same token, Deflect Attack is also worthless. Why take the risk deflecting when Harm's Way is 100% effective?

Might there be times when the DD wants to stay in their position (like holding a doorway or in the front line of combat) and does not want to swap and suddenly have their charge be in that position?

john

 

[two]

Definately

Also, two brought up an interesting scenario. Can Harm's Way be used against a spell attack that uses an attack roll? The description of Harm's Way merely states "attack" and "attack roll". This would include both melee and ranged attacks, but what about Melf's Acid Arrow or Polar Ray? Both are ranged attacks and require attack rolls, but being spells, should they be covered by Harm's Way?

Without doubt.

An attack is not just melee or ranged. It's all that, plus spells and other nefarious forms of assault.

With any kind of touch attack spell (melee or ranged) it's seems to be inarguable that the DD could jump in via harms way and take the hit. These spells do use an attack roll, after all.

As you know, we play that the DD can take a tageted spell hit, which is a bit of a stretch (for sure). Might have to change that.

I really can't see the jusification for disallowing attack spells, however. If the DD can jump in front of a crossbow bolt, why not a ray of frost?

As an aside... Devoted Defenders make the leadership feat sooooo nice. What's the best feat for a 9th level Sorcerer? Leadership - "please give me a Devoted Defender, DM". Bingo. It's like your sorcerer picks up 75 hitpoints from one feat. And other uses are, well, endless. A 6th level DD even beats a 6th level Cleric for increasing survivability, I suspect. Sorry. Off subject.