Devout Arcanist

eschwenke

First Post
Here's a prestige class that I came up with a while back because I hate the Mystic Theurge. My basic gripes with it are that all it does is give you an expanded spell list and more spells per day than you could possibly need, as well as making you somewhat ineffective. As some have said, "It's a trap!"
Back since 3rd ed came out, and prestige classes were introduced, I thought about how cool it would be to have a prestige class for those characters that are clerics of gods of magic that would allow for divine and arcane progression. Mystic Theurge was a let down. This is more what I had in mind:
(I'm sorry about the layout, I couldn't figure out how to do it better. If someone tells me what to do, I'll fix it.)

Devout Arcanist:

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per Day/Spells Known
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Double Major +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
2 +0 +0 +0 +3 Power Conversion +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class/
+1 bonus level of existing spellcasting class
3 +1 +1 +1 +3 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class/
+1 bonus level of existing spellcasting class
4 +1 +1 +1 +4 Hybridized Casting, +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
Spell Synergy +2 +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
5 +1 +1 +1 +4 Psionic Conversion +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class/
+1 bonus level of existing spellcasting class
6 +2 +2 +2 +5 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class/
+1 bonus level of existing spellcasting class
7 +2 +2 +2 +5 Spell Synergy +4 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
8 +2 +2 +2 +6 Spontaneous +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
Conversion +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class/
+1 bonus level of existing spellcasting class
9 +3 +3 +3 +6 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class/
+1 bonus level of existing spellcasting class
10 +3 +3 +3 +7 Spell Synergy +6 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class


Most devout arcanists are clerics of deities of magic and learning that feel the need to embrace that which their patron holds dear, still others are clerics of gods of death, destruction, or even trickery that see the potential of the arcane to further the goals of their masters. Others are students of nature that see the ambient energy of the arcane not as unnatural, but as part of the very fabric of the cosmos and study it in order to be in tune with the wild in all of its forms. Sometimes the spiritual leaders of communities study multiple avenues of magic in order to better serve the needs of their people.
Others exist to which “devout” is merely a technicality. These are more often arcanists that study the nature of divine power in order to better understand the workings of the multiverse so as to aid them in their attempts to bend it to their will. No matter the reason behind the devout arcanists choice to study the dual path of magic, they all find that while they have differences they are not incompatible, and when both are mastered both benefit from the other.

Requirements
To qualify to become a devout arcanist, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge Arcana 8 ranks, Knowledge Nature or Knowledge Religion 8 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane and divine spells.


Hit Die: d4

Class Skills
The devout arcanist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (any)(Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (Arcana)(Int), Knowledge (History)(Int), Knowledge (Nature)(Int), Knowledge (The Planes)(Int), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Knowledge (Religion)(Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int)

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the devout arcanist prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Devout arcanists gain no proficiency with weapon or armor.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each level, a devout arcanist gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class and any one divine spellcasting class to which she belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If she had more than one arcane spellcasting class or divine spellcasting class before becoming a devout arcanist, she must decide to which class to add each devout arcanist level for the purpose of determining spells per day, spells known, and overall caster level.

Bonus Spellcaster Level (Ex): At 2nd- level, as well as 3rd, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 9th-level, a devout arcanist gains a second caster level (in addition to the ones mentioned above) to one of her arcane or divine classes that already added to on gaining this class level. Each time a devout arcanist gets a bonus spellcaster level it must for a class other than the class that most recently received a prior bonus spellcaster level, and must be of a different type (arcane or divine) than the previous one. A devout arcanist can never have more spellcaster levels (that are applicable to spells per day/spells known) for any one spellcasting class that total more that the devout arcanist's character level.

Double Major (Ex): Due to the difficulty of splitting her magical studies between two different methodologies, at 1st level the devout arcanist must lighten the mental and spiritual strain on her being. When calculating spells per day, the devout arcanist halves (rounding down) the allowance of spells per day per spell level for all of her spellcasting classes. If she has access to Domains, her Domain spell slots are unaffected. If she has a school specialization, her bonus spells for specializing are not affected. If she has retrieved spells, she halves (rounding up) the number of retrieved spells per day per level. If she has spells known, she halves (rounding up) the number of spells known, losing spells known if required. If she has spells known from a class that at any point progresses at one new spell learned per level of any spell level she is able to cast, she instead gains one spell known at the first such level and one additional spell known at every other level. Bonus spells given from feats or ability modifiers are unaffected. If a class automatically gets spells for a book upon leveling, halves the number (rounding up.)

Power Conversion (Su): At 2nd level the devout arcanist learns flexibility in their ability to channel the divine and manipulate the arcane. At this point, all spells per day counts from all of her classes are combined on a level by level basis. Domain and specialization bonus spells remain separate, as do those gained from ability modifiers. Spells per day from the combined amounts can be used for any of the spells that she can cast. Preparation (if any) must still happen as normal. If she has the ability to spontaneously cast spells, they must be be cast using unprepared spell slots, unless she is given the ability to cast spontaneously by a feat or class feature that allows her to cast a small subset of spells by sacrificing other spells (for example sacrificing divine spells to spontaneously cast Domain Cure/Inflict, or Summon Nature's Ally spells.

Hybridized Casting (Su): Starting at 4th level, any spell that the devout arcanist is capable of casting both as divine and arcane spells may be cast as a hybrid spell. A hybrid spell counts as both arcane and divine and is subject to the combined requirements (components, foci) and restrictions (spell failure) associated with all applicable versions of the spell. If the spell is available at a different levels for both classes, the hybrid spell counts as the higher of the two. If the two classes used for casting the spell have spellcasting based on different ability scores, she uses the lower of the two. If both of the classes require preparation, then she must prepare the spell as a hybrid spell, otherwise it may be declared a hybrid spell at casting.

Spell Synergy (Ex): Starting at 4th level, when a devout arcanist casts a hybrid spell, she casts it at a +2 bonus to her spellcasting level. This bonus increases to +4 at 7th level and +6 at 10th level.

Psionic Conversion (Sp/Psi): At 5th level,the devout arcanist learns to convert his power into other forms than are normally available to eben them. At this level he learns how to sacrifice unprepared spell-slots to convert the spell-power into psionic energy. The devout arcanist may choose any Psionic Power, which is counted as the highest level for all lists that it appears in. He then sacrifices an unprepared slot of one level higher than that of the chosen power. In exchange, the devout arcanist is considered to have access to that power for the purposes of using psionic items. Each use of this ability lasts for one hour.

Spontaneous Conversion (Su): At 8th level, the Devout Arcanist that can cast spontaneous spells gets the ability sacrifice any prepared slots he has to cast spells he can cast spontaneously. In addition, He may now sacrifice prepared slots to use his Psionic Conversion ability.
 
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I don't get why you want to do this as a prestige class.

It looks like you're trying to cut back spells per day / spells known to half, for each of two classes, which will eventually emulate a single class worth of casting (but drawn from two lists).

I did something like this as a base class ("Favored Mystic of Selene", somewhere in the rightmost link of my sig), and I'd suggest you do the same -- make it a base class so it's easier to figure out all the implications.

Cheers, -- N
 

Some help with the formatting.

If you "Quote" my reply, then copy the relevant text, then "Edit" your original post, and paste the text in there, then you can use my formatting.
[sblock=eschwenke]Here's a prestige class that I came up with a while back because I hate the Mystic Theurge. My basic gripes with it are that all it does is give you an expanded spell list and more spells per day than you could possibly need, as well as making you somewhat ineffective. As some have said, "It's a trap!"
Back since 3rd ed came out, and prestige classes were introduced, I thought about how cool it would be to have a prestige class for those characters that are clerics of gods of magic that would allow for divine and arcane progression. Mystic Theurge was a let down. This is more what I had in mind:
(I'm sorry about the layout, I couldn't figure out how to do it better. If someone tells me what to do, I'll fix it.)

Devout Arcanist:

Code:
Level BAB Fort Ref Will    Special               Spells per Day/Spells Known[/U]
1      +0   +0   +0  +2    Double Major        +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
                                               +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class 
2      +0   +0   +0  +3    Power Conversion    +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
                                               +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class/
                                               +1 bonus level of existing spellcasting class
3      +1   +1   +1  +3                        +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
                                               +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class/
                                               +1 bonus level of existing spellcasting class
4      +1   +1   +1  +4    Hybridized Casting, +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
                            Spell Synergy +2   +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class 
5      +1   +1   +1  +4    Psionic Conversion  +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
                                               +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class/
                                               +1 bonus level of existing spellcasting class
6      +2   +2   +2  +5                        +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
                                               +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class/
                                               +1 bonus level of existing spellcasting class
7      +2   +2   +2  +5    Spell Synergy +4    +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
                                               +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class 
8      +2   +2   +2  +6    Spontaneous         +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
                            Conversion         +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class/
                                               +1 bonus level of existing spellcasting class
9      +3   +3   +3  +6                        +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
                                               +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class/
                                               +1 bonus level of existing spellcasting class
10    +3    +3   +3  +7    Spell Synergy +6    +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/
                                               +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

Most devout arcanists are clerics of deities of magic and learning that feel the need to embrace that which their patron holds dear, still others are clerics of gods of death, destruction, or even trickery that see the potential of the arcane to further the goals of their masters. Others are students of nature that see the ambient energy of the arcane not as unnatural, but as part of the very fabric of the cosmos and study it in order to be in tune with the wild in all of its forms. Sometimes the spiritual leaders of communities study multiple avenues of magic in order to better serve the needs of their people.

Others exist to which “devout” is merely a technicality. These are more often arcanists that study the nature of divine power in order to better understand the workings of the multiverse so as to aid them in their attempts to bend it to their will. No matter the reason behind the devout arcanists choice to study the dual path of magic, they all find that while they have differences they are not incompatible, and when both are mastered both benefit from the other.

Requirements
To qualify to become a devout arcanist, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge Arcana 8 ranks, Knowledge Nature or Knowledge Religion 8 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane and divine spells.

Hit Die: d4

Class Skills
The devout arcanist's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (any)(Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (Arcana)(Int), Knowledge (History)(Int), Knowledge (Nature)(Int), Knowledge (The Planes)(Int), Knowledge (Psionics)(Int), Knowledge (Religion)(Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int)

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the devout arcanist prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Devout arcanists gain no proficiency with weapon or armor.
Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each level, a devout arcanist gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class and any one divine spellcasting class to which she belonged before adding the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If she had more than one arcane spellcasting class or divine spellcasting class before becoming a devout arcanist, she must decide to which class to add each devout arcanist level for the purpose of determining spells per day, spells known, and overall caster level.
Bonus Spellcaster Level (Ex): At 2nd- level, as well as 3rd, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 9th-level, a devout arcanist gains a second caster level (in addition to the ones mentioned above) to one of her arcane or divine classes that already added to on gaining this class level. Each time a devout arcanist gets a bonus spellcaster level it must for a class other than the class that most recently received a prior bonus spellcaster level, and must be of a different type (arcane or divine) than the previous one. A devout arcanist can never have more spellcaster levels (that are applicable to spells per day/spells known) for any one spellcasting class that total more that the devout arcanist's character level.
Double Major (Ex): Due to the difficulty of splitting her magical studies between two different methodologies, at 1st level the devout arcanist must lighten the mental and spiritual strain on her being. When calculating spells per day, the devout arcanist halves (rounding down) the allowance of spells per day per spell level for all of her spellcasting classes. If she has access to Domains, her Domain spell slots are unaffected. If she has a school specialization, her bonus spells for specializing are not affected. If she has retrieved spells, she halves (rounding up) the number of retrieved spells per day per level. If she has spells known, she halves (rounding up) the number of spells known, losing spells known if required. If she has spells known from a class that at any point progresses at one new spell learned per level of any spell level she is able to cast, she instead gains one spell known at the first such level and one additional spell known at every other level. Bonus spells given from feats or ability modifiers are unaffected. If a class automatically gets spells for a book upon leveling, halves the number (rounding up.)
Power Conversion (Su): At 2nd level the devout arcanist learns flexibility in their ability to channel the divine and manipulate the arcane. At this point, all spells per day counts from all of her classes are combined on a level by level basis. Domain and specialization bonus spells remain separate, as do those gained from ability modifiers. Spells per day from the combined amounts can be used for any of the spells that she can cast. Preparation (if any) must still happen as normal. If she has the ability to spontaneously cast spells, they must be be cast using unprepared spell slots, unless she is given the ability to cast spontaneously by a feat or class feature that allows her to cast a small subset of spells by sacrificing other spells (for example sacrificing divine spells to spontaneously cast Domain Cure/Inflict, or Summon Nature's Ally spells.
Hybridized Casting (Su): Starting at 4th level, any spell that the devout arcanist is capable of casting both as divine and arcane spells may be cast as a hybrid spell. A hybrid spell counts as both arcane and divine and is subject to the combined requirements (components, foci) and restrictions (spell failure) associated with all applicable versions of the spell. If the spell is available at a different levels for both classes, the hybrid spell counts as the higher of the two. If the two classes used for casting the spell have spellcasting based on different ability scores, she uses the lower of the two. If both of the classes require preparation, then she must prepare the spell as a hybrid spell, otherwise it may be declared a hybrid spell at casting.
Spell Synergy (Ex): Starting at 4th level, when a devout arcanist casts a hybrid spell, she casts it at a +2 bonus to her spellcasting level. This bonus increases to +4 at 7th level and +6 at 10th level.
Psionic Conversion (Sp/Psi): At 5th level,the devout arcanist learns to convert his power into other forms than are normally available to eben them. At this level he learns how to sacrifice unprepared spell-slots to convert the spell-power into psionic energy. The devout arcanist may choose any Psionic Power, which is counted as the highest level for all lists that it appears in. He then sacrifices an unprepared slot of one level higher than that of the chosen power. In exchange, the devout arcanist is considered to have access to that power for the purposes of using psionic items. Each use of this ability lasts for one hour.
Spontaneous Conversion (Su): At 8th level, the Devout Arcanist that can cast spontaneous spells gets the ability sacrifice any prepared slots he has to cast spells he can cast spontaneously. In addition, He may now sacrifice prepared slots to use his Psionic Conversion ability.[/sblock]
 
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Jdvn1 said:
Some help with the formatting.

If you "Quote" my reply, then copy the relevant text, then "Edit" your original post, and paste the text in there, then you can use my formatting.
This is all and everything that shows up when someone "quotes" your post. (There's no embedded quoting on EN World.)

Edit your post so the class isn't in quote-blocks.

Cheers, -- N
 

Nifft said:
I don't get why you want to do this as a prestige class.

It looks like you're trying to cut back spells per day / spells known to half, for each of two classes, which will eventually emulate a single class worth of casting (but drawn from two lists).

I did something like this as a base class ("Favored Mystic of Selene", somewhere in the rightmost link of my sig), and I'd suggest you do the same -- make it a base class so it's easier to figure out all the implications.

Cheers, -- N

Personally, I wonder why people make new base classes when a prestige class will do the job. I'd rather have a limited number of base classes and then allow people to specialize and/or better integrate their multiclassing through prestige classes.

What I want is someone that's half divine caster (of any type) and half arcane caster (of any type that through hard work and dedication is able to combine the two forms into something greater than the sum of its parts.

What you have is a highly specialized base class that's kinda like a cleric but not really, kinda like a wizard but not really, and kinda like a sorcerer but not really. It has a predefined role within a specific culture (which I don't think is appropriate for a base class), it doesn't reflect taking two disparate sources of power and effectively mixing them, and it lacks the customization that comes with choosing two different base classes.

This is why I'm using a prestige class instead of a base class.
 

eschwenke said:
First of all, I wonder why people make new base classes when a prestige class will do the job.
Because PrCs can't do all jobs.

eschwenke said:
What you have is a highly specialized base class that's kinda like a cleric but not really, kinda like a wizard but not really, and kinda like a sorcerer but not really.
Yep.

Kinda like what you've got, with your spontaneous half-this and half-that, but easier to figure out what it'll actually be able to do at any given level.

Cheers, -- N
 

Nifft said:
This is all and everything that shows up when someone "quotes" your post. (There's no embedded quoting on EN World.)

Edit your post so the class isn't in quote-blocks.

Cheers, -- N
Thanks for that.
 

Nifft said:
Because PrCs can't do all jobs.

No, they can't; that's why we have stuff like the binder, shadow-caster, warblade, sword-sage, and totemist. New subsytems that work completely differently than what has come before are introduced, and need base classes to institute them. But Divine and Arcane magic aren't new, and we already have a plethora of classes that use it. Better to build on that foundation than produce yet another base class that does old stuff slightly differently

Yep.

Kinda like what you've got, with your spontaneous half-this and half-that, but easier to figure out what it'll actually be able to do at any given level.

Not really. A devout arcanist that had cleric and wizard as base classes has domains, turning, spontaneous healing/inflicting, a familiar, and possibly a school specialization. She would cast cleric spells like a cleric, wizard spells like a wizard, and would cast hybrid spells like both and at greater power. She would never gain the ability to cast spontaneously (except for cure/inflict, which could come from any source).
(unless she was using the spontaneous divine casting rules for UA.)

A devout arcanist that was half druid and half sorcerer would gain an animal companion, wild shape, spontaneous castings of summon natures allies, and a familiar. Druid spells would be cast like a Druid; and any spell/spell slot could be used for SNA. Sorcerer spells would be cast like a sorceror provided enough unprepared spells were left. Hybrid spells, although prepared, would be cast as both and would be more powerful than normal. Eventually, he would be able to turn prepared druid spells into spontaneous sorcerer spells.

Devout Arcanists have a huge number of permutations, and are half divine, half arcane, with an extra oomph. Your class is tied to a particular deity, casts cleric and wizard spells spontaneously, but using a book and a sublist of retrived spells like a spirit shaman. In addition they get all of these gifts from their goddess that don't directly involve spellcasting and synergy between two forms.

In other words, Nifft, I did what I did for a reason, and I was hoping for more constructive criticism than what amounts to "scrap it and use mine."

Thank you.
 

eschwenke said:
In other words, Nifft, I did what I did for a reason, and I was hoping for more constructive criticism than what amounts to "scrap it and use mine."
If that's what you think I'm saying, you're missing a bunch.

Here's an example of what's wrong with your class:

PC level 6
3rd level Cleric spells/day: 4 / 2+1 / 1+1
3rd level Wizard spells/day: 4 / 2 / 1

PC level 7
Half 4th Cleric spells/day: 2 / 1+1 / 1+1
Half 4th Wizard spells/day: 2 / 1 / 1

See the change there? They lose spells. They've gone from terribly suboptimal (Wiz 3 / Cleric 3) to worse.

Maybe it's cool at 16th level -- that's what defenders of the Mystic Theurge say -- but honestly, your class is more painful for the entry-level dude than the one you hope to replace.

I suspect this wasn't what you'd intended.

Cheers, -- N
 


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