D&D 3.x Diablo 3 Demon Hunter for 3.5?

[kitcik]

I think there are magic items that also grant limited movement as a swift action.

Martial Study: Sudden Leap and a Ring of Jumping also works.

 

[emoplato]

I understand how Travel Devotion works. I just feel leery about a feat that probably would need to be taken more than once (unless you're a cleric or paladin with the ability to turn/rebuke undead), especially given how limited the selection of feats would be to begin with. It wouldn't be so bad if this were predominantly a Fighter build, since they have plenty of bonus feats to grab most all the necessities, but most any other class is going to be rather limited in that regard.

I did look at Combat Trapsmith a bit earlier today -- combat trapping seems a nice special ability, though most of the traps leave something to be desired. I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps a limited spellcasting progression like what the Paladin or Ranger have might be preferable. Only potential problem is that those would be limited, and I'm not sure I'd want to try the "per encounter" thing introduced in Tome of Battle, even though that would potentially work a bit better in certain respects. I'd prefer to keep that aspect of the class creation rather simple, since I think doing a hybrid of ranger and scout as a basis for the class, would be the best bet.

Boots of sidestepping grant you an extra five foot step 3/day . There is also the belt of battle which does the same thing as travel devotion once 3/day. These would be good supplements.

 

[Azaar]

All that aside for the moment, I've been working up some of the basics of making this a full-fledged 20-level class. Some musings:

Spells Vs. Traps: For the most part, I'm actually opting for spells on this, though I'm considering something akin to the arcane channeling special ability from the duskblade, modified for use with ranged weaponry. Charisma will likely be the governing attribute. Limited progression, 4 levels like the paladin and ranger (I could consider 5 level like the duskblade, but I don't want there to be an insane number of spells per day or anything like that, though having a 5th level would be nice -- if I decide to go beyond 4, I'll most likely look towards the bard spells/day progression instead, but I think that's overpowered with the class features I'm planning). Spell list is something I'm working on at present, but I'm looking at some transmutation, illusion (pretty much solely shadow subschool) and a little evocation for some of the fire-damage traps. What I can't emulate with spells, I think I can emulate with grenadelike splash weapons as best as I can (including the bomb and smoke bomb featured in the DMG).

Hit Dice: I'm leaning towards d8, though I may go d6, depending on what I decide to do for saves.

Saves: Currently considering low Fort, high Reflex and high Will, though I may wind up just sticking with high Will instead.

BAB: Medium, as rogue or scout (+15/+10/+5 at 20th level) -- I don't think the class should be so martially-inclined as to warrant fighter BAB, so I'm sticking with the medium progression.

Skills Per Level: (6 + Int) x 4 at 1st level, 6 + Int each additional level.

Skill List: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script*, Disguise, Escape Artist*, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Speak Language*, Spot, Survival, Swim

The skills marked with asterisks, I'm open to removing if necessary -- I thought they might be extra flavor skills. Disable Device was being considered, but I don't know that I want to have trapfinding as an ability, even though it might make sense given some of the "traps" that are being featured.

Armor/Weapons: Light armor, no shields. Simple weapons, plus chakram (I've only got the Arms & Equipment Guide to go on for stats), hand crossbow, kukri, scimitar, short bow (including composite) and short sword.

So far as class abilities go, I'm looking at some bonus feat selections at varying levels, a favored enemy deal (though I'm considering limiting it solely to evil outsiders and undead, in keeping with Diablo 3's setting and background), and the skirmish mechanic. May do uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge, but I'm not entirely certain whether I should include evasion or not. May also do a skill mastery for Balance, Jump and Tumble, but not certain there. I'd really like to do something similar to the ranger combat feats, but have it specifically focused on varying ranged weapons, like how the Demon Hunter's Archery skill works -- split it between shortbow, light/heavy crossbow and hand crossbow (I won't lie that I really do still want to emulate the dual-wielding hand crossbows, but the earlier discussion above has me brainstorming there).

My big worry is, of course, overloading the class with a bunch of goodies. That part is going to take me a while to try and sketch out -- the last thing I want to do is have the class be overpowered compared to everything else. I guess we'll see how it goes.

 

[Azaar]

I typically dislike doing a double post, but I feel like I should update on the progress.

Doing a spell-based version Demon Hunter is more difficult than I anticipated -- mostly because trying to balance it out via the D&D 3.5 mechanics is almost an exercise in futility. At this point, I've concluded that really the only way to cover it by the mechanics would be to make it as a gestalt character.

Ranger/Scout would be one side of the gestalt (with Swift Hunter so that the levels stack for skirmish and favored enemy bonuses). The other side, so far, I've found a surprising fit for: the psion from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Who needs Travel Devotion to burn a valuable feat space when you have access to hustle (a one-round duration power that lets you take your move action as a swift action) or inconstant location (a heightened version of hustle that lasts for one minute, and can be augmented with additional power points to last additional rounds)?

Only a few Demon Hunter abilities are stumping me, at least of the ones I've been through so far -- primarily Marked for Death (which would seemingly work as a curse effect, except there's not really a curse-effect in psionics that fits) and Sentry (which I suspect would require breaking the rules to have a dancing quickloading crossbow, for instance). And then there's still the Passive Skills to look at, though half of them can be dealt with via potential feat selections.

Overall it seems to be coming together better as a gestalt character type than as a typical 20-level core class -- but then, I also confess that I'm looking at ways to include everything, while I know the class itself in Diablo 3 limits how much you can do at any given time, and a 20-level class build for the Demon Hunter in D&D 3.5 would have to do the same thing.

 

[emoplato]

I typically dislike doing a double post, but I feel like I should update on the progress.

Doing a spell-based version Demon Hunter is more difficult than I anticipated -- mostly because trying to balance it out via the D&D 3.5 mechanics is almost an exercise in futility. At this point, I've concluded that really the only way to cover it by the mechanics would be to make it as a gestalt character.

Ranger/Scout would be one side of the gestalt (with Swift Hunter so that the levels stack for skirmish and favored enemy bonuses). The other side, so far, I've found a surprising fit for: the psion from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Who needs Travel Devotion to burn a valuable feat space when you have access to hustle (a one-round duration power that lets you take your move action as a swift action) or inconstant location (a heightened version of hustle that lasts for one minute, and can be augmented with additional power points to last additional rounds)?

Only a few Demon Hunter abilities are stumping me, at least of the ones I've been through so far -- primarily Marked for Death (which would seemingly work as a curse effect, except there's not really a curse-effect in psionics that fits) and Sentry (which I suspect would require breaking the rules to have a dancing quickloading crossbow, for instance). And then there's still the Passive Skills to look at, though half of them can be dealt with via potential feat selections.

Overall it seems to be coming together better as a gestalt character type than as a typical 20-level core class -- but then, I also confess that I'm looking at ways to include everything, while I know the class itself in Diablo 3 limits how much you can do at any given time, and a 20-level class build for the Demon Hunter in D&D 3.5 would have to do the same thing.

Well if you want a psionic version you could modify the Lurk to deal augments with ranged attacks.