Dice pool mechanics
- Thread starter Morrus
- Start date
In practice, I've found FATE to be plenty swingy, if you're relying on the dice. FATE handles the issue not by having particularly non-swingy dice, but by allowing players to stack a bazillion modifiers on the roll, so that the dice don't mean much.
Scars Unseen
Hero
Maybe I just define "swing" differently, so I'll use a different word to avoid confusion. I like multiple dice systems because the results are less random. More easily predicted. That means that the dice matter less, and the numbers on your character sheet(and any circumstantial bonus you might be able to acquire in any given roll) matter more. That might not be a result that everyone wants(or else there wouldn't be so many dice systems), but I do like it.
No, I think we define "swing" similarly. I'm just noting that the effective range of the FATE dice, compared to the typical values needed to reach success, is pretty large. And while the full +/-4 may not be too common, +/-3 comes up often enough. When you pile on several tagged aspects, though, that becomes less relevant.
delericho
Legend
With dice-pool systems, I definitely prefer ones where you compare each die vs a target number (Shadowrun, WoD), rather than those where you roll and add (Star Wars d6). The latter slows down very quickly as the number of dice go up - gamers don't actually seem to be that much better than non-gamers at adding up lots of small numbers, and for most people that actually amounts to "not very good at it."
That said, my preference is not to use a dice pool at all. Because while Umbran is right that adding more dice tends to reduce the swinginess of the game, adding more dice also increases the magnitude of those extremes. This is especially true when two large dice pools were making opposed rolls.
I always found the old WoD games hideously difficult to balance. Beyond a certain points, combats amounted to attack/soak, attack/soak, attack/soak... max damage/botched soak.
That said, my preference is not to use a dice pool at all. Because while Umbran is right that adding more dice tends to reduce the swinginess of the game, adding more dice also increases the magnitude of those extremes. This is especially true when two large dice pools were making opposed rolls.
I always found the old WoD games hideously difficult to balance. Beyond a certain points, combats amounted to attack/soak, attack/soak, attack/soak... max damage/botched soak.
You could tie damage (or effect) into the action itself and the cap on damage dies are based on the roll to succeed. (The more dice you want to roll for damage the less chance you have to succeed.) Players may cap themselves or go all out depending on their personality.
Base Chance of Success to deal 1d6 damage: 70%
2d6: 65%
3d6: 60%
4d6: 55%
5d6: 50%
etc
I don't mind dice pools in games as long as they're capped to a reasonable number (say 10).
Base Chance of Success to deal 1d6 damage: 70%
2d6: 65%
3d6: 60%
4d6: 55%
5d6: 50%
etc
I don't mind dice pools in games as long as they're capped to a reasonable number (say 10).
Ratskinner
Adventurer
Personally, I can't say that I have a whole awful lot of experience with "straight" dice pool games, but I kind of like the effect of Cortex+'s roll-and-keep. It feels like a character's traits matter, but the numbers don't get unreasonable. I played some WoD back in the 90's, and I didn't find its dice pools particularly compelling. I also played Whispering Vault with its weird die system, which had some advantages, but still didn't end up being particularly compelling, IMO.
3catcircus
Adventurer
I'm not sure what other systems use a similar mechanic, but I really like Twilight:2013's dice pool mechanic.
1. Your target number is your controlling attribute,with additional skill ranks raising the target number and other modifiers raising/lowering as applicable. If the modifiers lower the target number to 0, it is an automatic fail and if modifiers raise the target number to 20 it is an automatic success. Your intent is to roll lower than that target number using d20s.
2. The amount of skill ranks determines how many d20 dice you roll - anywhere from 1d20 to 6d20, taking the lowest rolls (i.e. xd20L). If you are unskilled, you roll 2d20 but have to take the highest of the two rolls (i.e. 2d20H).
3. The amount you roll below the target number is a margin of success. For example - if you need to get below a 9 and you roll a 7, your margin of success is 2. Where this is commonly used in that game is to add to the amount of base damage an attack does if it succeeds.
4. If your margin of success is 5 or more, it is the equivalent of a critical. Likewise, failing by 5 or more is the equivalent of a fumble.
5. Since you are taking the lowest roll, if more than one of the dice are successful, each additional success beyond the first adds 2 to the margin of success. Example - if you need to beat a 12, rolling 4d6L and you get a 4, 7, 11, and 18, then your margin of success is (12 - 4) + 2 + 2 = 12.
6. Attribute checks are always a 2d20L.
This approach provides something different than the d20 linear curve (I don't know off-hand how non-linear this dice pol mechanic is).
I like that this mechanic provides the GM with the ability to model the fact that the more skilled are generally more successful more often, but occasionally also run into a problem, where an activity can be considered routine or easy for the more skilled and more difficult for the less skilled (whereas the d20 system's linear distribution means that everyone is using the same scale so the more skilled will always be successful once they get enough skill ranks, barring rolling a 1.) An example would be that landing a jet on an aircraft carrier is hard for everyone, but harder for someone who has done less of them. A day-time, clear weather, calm sea state landing might be considered "normal" for a veteran (no mod) and "complex" (target number lowered by 1) for a newly-minted aviator. Change that to a night landing in sea state 5 with driving rain might make it a "difficult" task (target number reduced by 3) for the veteran and "daunting" (target number reduced by 4) for the new guy. And the calm, clear, day landing might be considered "impossible" for someone who has never taken flying lessons let alone been awarded their wings and completed carrier quals...
1. Your target number is your controlling attribute,with additional skill ranks raising the target number and other modifiers raising/lowering as applicable. If the modifiers lower the target number to 0, it is an automatic fail and if modifiers raise the target number to 20 it is an automatic success. Your intent is to roll lower than that target number using d20s.
2. The amount of skill ranks determines how many d20 dice you roll - anywhere from 1d20 to 6d20, taking the lowest rolls (i.e. xd20L). If you are unskilled, you roll 2d20 but have to take the highest of the two rolls (i.e. 2d20H).
3. The amount you roll below the target number is a margin of success. For example - if you need to get below a 9 and you roll a 7, your margin of success is 2. Where this is commonly used in that game is to add to the amount of base damage an attack does if it succeeds.
4. If your margin of success is 5 or more, it is the equivalent of a critical. Likewise, failing by 5 or more is the equivalent of a fumble.
5. Since you are taking the lowest roll, if more than one of the dice are successful, each additional success beyond the first adds 2 to the margin of success. Example - if you need to beat a 12, rolling 4d6L and you get a 4, 7, 11, and 18, then your margin of success is (12 - 4) + 2 + 2 = 12.
6. Attribute checks are always a 2d20L.
This approach provides something different than the d20 linear curve (I don't know off-hand how non-linear this dice pol mechanic is).
I like that this mechanic provides the GM with the ability to model the fact that the more skilled are generally more successful more often, but occasionally also run into a problem, where an activity can be considered routine or easy for the more skilled and more difficult for the less skilled (whereas the d20 system's linear distribution means that everyone is using the same scale so the more skilled will always be successful once they get enough skill ranks, barring rolling a 1.) An example would be that landing a jet on an aircraft carrier is hard for everyone, but harder for someone who has done less of them. A day-time, clear weather, calm sea state landing might be considered "normal" for a veteran (no mod) and "complex" (target number lowered by 1) for a newly-minted aviator. Change that to a night landing in sea state 5 with driving rain might make it a "difficult" task (target number reduced by 3) for the veteran and "daunting" (target number reduced by 4) for the new guy. And the calm, clear, day landing might be considered "impossible" for someone who has never taken flying lessons let alone been awarded their wings and completed carrier quals...
Argyle King
Legend
I like the way the dice pool works in Star Wars: Edge of The Empire.
The dice for that game don't have numbers on them in the same way normal dice do. You just look to see if you have more success than failure, and you look to see how much advantage and disadvantage you have. The amount of dice rolled is determined by your skill, the difficulty of the situation, and whether you spend fate tokens or not. For example, if my character is really good at piloting a ship, I am likely rolling a few of the yellow skill dice. If I'm trying an easy piloting maneuver, I may have one difficulty die added to my pool; a more difficult maneuver might add two or three to my pool. I might then also spend a fate token to add a blue die. Regardless; no matter how many dice I roll, I'm simply looking to see if I have more success symbols than failure symbols.
The dice for that game don't have numbers on them in the same way normal dice do. You just look to see if you have more success than failure, and you look to see how much advantage and disadvantage you have. The amount of dice rolled is determined by your skill, the difficulty of the situation, and whether you spend fate tokens or not. For example, if my character is really good at piloting a ship, I am likely rolling a few of the yellow skill dice. If I'm trying an easy piloting maneuver, I may have one difficulty die added to my pool; a more difficult maneuver might add two or three to my pool. I might then also spend a fate token to add a blue die. Regardless; no matter how many dice I roll, I'm simply looking to see if I have more success symbols than failure symbols.
