Did the Celstials really fail this hard?

[TrueSpade]

I don't like to bash Angels, since they are "the good guys" but I heard about a group of celestials that went into the Abyss. There were like a million of them.

but after sometime, only like 20,000 came back since apparantly the Demons and Devils teamed up temporarily.

Adding to this, I read every Planet only has one Planetar, and every Solar System has 1 Solar.

The demons (and devils) really seem to outpower the celstials by an exponential amount. If Demogorgon decided to rush the material plane, I don't see him getting much trouble from celestials.

So, why are celstials so weak? I thought light > darkness. (Not counting the Immortals Handbook) Angels seem really weak when compared to demon lords. Especially when outnumbered. Why did the game creators make them so weak?

 

[Dandu]

Game creators don't necessarily understand game balance.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Adding to this, I read every Planet only has one Planetar, and every Solar System has 1 Solar.

Where did you read that?

 

[TrueSpade]

Where did you read that?

angel Intelligence Check

^ This link above states it in I think the Planetar sections. If this is true, it really irratates me. 1 Angel should be able to take on an elite demon on equal terms. But a Marilith, Balor, or Pit Fiend would demolish an Astral Deva, or even a Planetar.

 

[nijineko]

it is more likely a matter of the game designers never having met an actual angel, and are thus somewhat ignorant of the sheer overpowering awe and fear that even seeing one engenders in the average unshielded human. besides which, the common artistic depictions of cherubim do no justice to the being solely entrusted with keeping uncounted billions of humans over the various ages out of the garden and away from the tree of life, not to mention being the ones that stand besides the throne of god.

degradation and depreciation through popular media.

 

[Ashtagon]

If angels were that powerful, PCs would be redundant.

 

[Shemeska]

I don't like to bash Angels, since they are "the good guys" but I heard about a group of celestials that went into the Abyss. There were like a million of them.

but after sometime, only like 20,000 came back since apparantly the Demons and Devils teamed up temporarily.

This comes from the Blood War timeline in the 2e 'Hellbound: The Blood War' box set, under the section The Intervention of the Celestials.

However you read it wrong, since there weren't any angels involved. It wasn't the aasimon/angels (any Good, creations of and servitors of good deities), but the archons (LG celestials). The archons intervened in the Blood War, and faced with this common enemy, the demons/tanar'ri and devils/baatezu temporarily stopped fighting each other and decimated the celestials. Since that time the upper planes have never made any organized intervention into the Blood War, and some celestials have actively tried to keep the Blood War going, for fear of what could happen if the fiends ever united (which the yugoloths appear to have in mind as a sort of cosmic end game plan).

Adding to this, I read every Planet only has one Planetar, and every Solar System has 1 Solar.

I have no idea where that came from. I've never seen it in any AD&D material at least from 2e till now.

 

[Buugipopuu]

Angels seem really weak when compared to demon lords.

That's because Demon Lords are the equivalent of Celestial Paragons, not Angels.

 

[halfcore]

D&D =/= Christianity.

Just because D&D draws a lot of inspiration from this world's religions, myths and stories doesn't mean they have to follow the same rules. For instance, every greek mythical monster is pretty much present in the Monstrous Manuals, and even though in the myths these monsters were usually unique (and unbeatable by 99% of the humans), there are dozens and hundreds of them in the worlds of D&D and they range from CR 1 to CR 20.

And so on.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I am going to respond to this thread from a 3.5 perspective, since I am unsure as to which edition you're getting information from, and 3.5 is the edition I am most familiar with.

Please understand, according to D&D, "Angels" and "Demons" are much more varied and complex then your OP seems to suggest.

First, on Solars and Planetars:
According to the text in the 3.5 MMI, Solar reads, in part, "Solars are the greatest of the angels...only the most powerful of fiends approach their power." With a challenge rating of 23, that's saying something.
Planetar entry reads, in part, "Planetars serve as mighty generals of celestial armies" at CR 16, that's nothing to sneeze at.
These guys are not weak.
Nothing in these entrys restricts the number of these beings, and they are described in plurality.

Second, what you've labeled "Angels" are actually part of the large grouping of "Celestials".

MM1 Angels- Astral Deva, Solar, Planetar. Any good alignment.
MM1 Guardinals- Avoral, Lenoal. Neutral Good.
MM1 Archons- Lantern, Hound, Trumpet. Lawful Good.
MM1 Eladrin- Bralani, Ghaele. Chaotic Good.

These are all the "Good" guys in the Outer Planes that represent anything "Angel" like, and these are only the examples from the first Monster Manual, not including many other official sources.

These Celestials are spread across multiple Planes of existence and are not united in location, organization, or even alignment views. There is no indication that the actively disagree or wage war with each other, but also no indication that they band together very often for any purpose. Their levels of power varies widely between the Lantern Archon's CR 2 and the Solar's CR 23. "Weakness" and "Strength" varies greatly.

Now, on the side of the "Bad" guys. You've got the main distinction between Chaotic Evil Demons and Lawful Evil Devils, and the Blood War between them. First and foremost, it is this Blood War between the evils that keeps them from overrunning the Multiverse, the bad guys are too busy fighting each other though outright combat and manipulative scheming and backstabbing to do too much damage to the rest of everyone else.

Devils vary in species and power. Demons vary in species and power. They exist across multiple Planes, and layers upon those Planes, and are constantly warring among themselves. Demons fight with Demons and Devils fight with Devils in addition to the larger war they have.

The reason why Demegorgon hasn't yet rushed the Material Plane is not a fear of the Celestial's retaliation, but because of political maneuvering and ongoing war. If a single Demon Lord tried something that grand, any number of rival Demon Lords, Celestial champions, mortal heroes, etc. would try to undermine his attempts, both covertly and overtly.

Conflicts on minor or major scales such as these is why we have adventures to play in this game! Any DM could run a campaign where a Demon Lord tried to rise up and attack the Material Plane, but that DM would have access to just as much powerful options on the other side to design a balanced opposition. The game creators saw that we all had enough options to choose from.