Pathfinder 1E Did WOTC take one for the team, help Paizo?

[Vocenoctum]

I smell some uncharacteristic kindness on the part of WOTC to allow Paizo to make the announcement early, even though it may sting themselves a bit. Truth is, all of us will check out the DI, and many of us will pay for it. In the end it helps Paizo, and eventually will help themselves.

Truthfully, WotC has repeatedly been nice to most of these companies. Sure the Char-Gen situation might not have been, but they probably figured it wasn't importance since the revenues were so minor.

In addition, most of these negotiations occur over months, it was probably just clear to these negotiations that there wasn't much to negotiate.

On another note, Erik Mona and others of the Paizo team work in an even more direct manner for WotC on occasion, and I'm sure that many at WotC would like to make the transition for Paizo easier.

 

[daemonslye]

1 - WotC announces Dragon and Dungeon to be moved to online paid subscription only.
2- In killing the brands, they avoided hundreds, and later, thousands of inquiries on how the subscriptions already paid for would transfer over.
3. A trigger of all the subscription transfers to WotC could have put Paizo under.
4. They announce the death of the magazines and everybody gets something.

Gotta love speculation. Lets try this one out (...in some alternate universe):

1. WOTC announces that the magazines are to move online. October will be the first issue.

2. Paizo announces two new magazines - Call them "Wyvern and Labyrinth" (See Monte's post: http://p222.ezboard.com/Whu-whu-Dra...icID=5683.topic)

3. Subscribers of the current magazine (note: Only those with subscriptions that run past Sept.) are given a choice, transfer to the Paizo publications or the New WOTC Online Content - or both.

4. Folks who "turn off" their subscriptions to Paizo get a credit - to be applied to the online versions of the magazine (multiple ways for this to happen). Or they can simply get a check back from Paizo. JUST AS IT IS BEING OFFERED TODAY.

Why did this not happen? Hmmmmmmm. (Speculation at work here again)

Because (perhaps) the leadership at WOTC, in their corporate wisdom, deemed Paizo a threat that perpetuates the "old model". See, CEOs like "new models". Executive teams like to feel they are "blazing new ground"; Making history as it were. (if there are other, economic pressures, so much the better to create a screen and gain some time)

• Dragon and Dungeon Magazines, as constructs, have no place in the "new model" (names aside, the experience won't allow for two separate entities with similar scope as today)

• Having readily available alternatives would squeeze WOTC's ability to railroad those starved for content (e.g. "customers") into the "new model"

• In terms of advance notice, timing, customer communication, handling of $'s, and non-competes; There are certainly contract terms which cover quite a bit of this, set down in the original License Agreement between WOTC and Paizo (I can't imagine Paizo was in any position to negotiate at the time).

So before we start ruminating about how altuistic our old friends (and I mean the exec team - not the content providers) at WOTC are, lets also understand there are facets in the gem that may reveal a few ethical flaws (from a "values" point of view).

Based on all of the data available to me (which, admittedly, is not much - by design), I can only conclude that WOTC has chosen a course without regard to a certain fan-base; Of which, I am but one.

In response, myself, along with every one I have spoken with, including any of you who feel as I do, will boycott (or, in some cases, significantly curtail) spending on WOTC products. As pointed out by others (using the same sort of speculation I have above), we may be a small group. A minority even. But, if we feel it is important enough, based on hours spent on the hobby alone, we can create change. It has been proven throughout history that large changes can be sparked by a (determined) few.

Speaking to those that do not like the current corporate action by Hasbro/WOTC, who currently own the IP to our hobby, let them know you don't agree with this decision. If they make decisions without consideration to important customers such as yourselves, stop buying their products. Engage your friends to do the same.

Personally, I believe that those who care about the decision (again, this is larger than just print content, it has to do with how the industry reaches fans, the pride of collection, having something usable at the gaming table, the experience of seeing varied content that you wouldn't normally run an Internet search for, etc.) can make a big impact if they try.

Let others tell you how small a group and insignificant you are. You know better from personal experience. You *can* make a difference.

~D

 

[crazy_cat]

You know what? (and I say this not with anger, but rather with honesty) I don't really give a rat's a** what WotC thinks? They saw fit to cancel both mags and replace it with a medium that I personally have no interest in. Pathfinder, on the other hand, is something that looks very much like I will have an interest in.

In a general sense, I don't fault WotC for making decisions that they feel is in the best interest of their company. However, I'm not sure this decision is or will be in the best interest of their company. Time will tell, I guess.

I'm agreeing with all of this.

 

[heirodule]

Somone somwhere suggested the main business decision here:

Take everything D&D in house (no outside licensors, e-tools either), because that way, pieces of WOTC can be sold off if necessary with no muss or fuss.

Makes some sense?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Somone somwhere suggested the main business decision here:

Take everything D&D in house (no outside licensors, e-tools either), because that way, pieces of WOTC can be sold off if necessary with no muss or fuss.

Makes some sense?

What about all those computer games? Are they going to start producing them in house as well? I doubt it.

 

[Ghendar]

Somone somwhere suggested the main business decision here:

Take everything D&D in house (no outside licensors, e-tools either), because that way, pieces of WOTC can be sold off if necessary with no muss or fuss.

Makes some sense?

And if that meant the continuation of Dragon and Dungeon in print form, we wouldn't be seeing all this angst and anger. There still would be uncertainty and doubt, but not like what we've seen the last few days.

 

[Monkey King]

Somone somwhere suggested the main business decision here:

Take everything D&D in house (no outside licensors, e-tools either), because that way, pieces of WOTC can be sold off if necessary with no muss or fuss.

Makes some sense?

Alas, no. WotC just recently renewed the computer game licenses for D&D to Infogrames. So they aren't taking all licenses in house, and are specifically licensing out some forms of digital content.

 

[00Machado]

It does seem to me that they're helping, or at least not going out of their way to hurt Paizo, by not announcing anything. I think their strategy of responses from the R&R team is good, because it reminds me there are real people over there who are cool.

A message from marketing wouldn't have worked.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Here's my reasoning:

1 - WotC announces Dragon and Dungeon to be moved to online paid subscription only.


Much teeth gnashing and wailing about paper vs electronic and .pdf formats, sure, but nowhere NEAR this level of reaction.

Even though Paizo's Erik Mona et al would not have been involved in the new online version, it would have been a spin in terms of PR that would have wholly turned on the nature of delivery, and not in the nature of the death of the magazines or the change in content or direction.

If that's all it was - they would have announced the transfer of both to an online form in a heartbeat - made the changes to content as they liked - and spun the changes later as "necessary".

But they didn't do that at all. So why not?

2- In killing the brands, they avoided hundreds, and later, thousands of inquiries on how the subscriptions already paid for would transfer over.

Maybe Paizo could have paid the money to WotC.

And just as possible, maybe they could not have afforded to do it.

Either way - WotC would have been on the hook for the service, would have had to pay money to implement database transfers - all a big big headache for a charge that Hasbro - longterm - can easily afford.

I think the only problem with this theory is the idea that WotC would have had any legal power to transfer Paizo's subscriptions over to them. The subscription information Paizo has is their property, it is unlikely it would be part of the license, therefore there would be no way for WotC to "transfer" everyone's subscriptions from Paizo, without paying Paizo for the information, which would likely cost WotC more than those subscriptions were actually worth.

Which all of course continues to lend credence to the idea that the move was done in this way for economical reasons.

Other possibilities: If Paizo wanted to make the announcement at GAMA, WotC obviously had to give them permission to, since I'm sure Paizo has a non-disclosure agreement, but Paizo may have had a card to play regarding the timing in the form of the Savage Tide AP. I don't know how much creative control WotC had over Paizo, but Paizo could have "negotiated" to wrap up Savage Tide by the final issue of Dungeon, rather than leaving it to WotC to complete themselves, in exchange for a more favorable timing of the announcement. Could you image the amount of anger that would be spit out if they announced that Savage Tides would be completed by WotC as part of their new DI, or not completed at all? The mods here would probably be passing out from exhaustion with all the banning they would be doing.

Not saying anything like this happened, but I wonder what really did happen behind the scenes. I guess we'll have to wait for the E! Hollywood Story: Eric Mona to find out.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I think the only problem with this theory is the idea that WotC would have had any legal power to transfer Paizo's subscriptions over to them. The subscription information Paizo has is their property, it is unlikely it would be part of the license, therefore there would be no way for WotC to "transfer" everyone's subscriptions from Paizo, without paying Paizo for the information, which would likely cost WotC more than those subscriptions were actually worth.

A while ago, when a lot of folks were getting ad's for D&D chess set to the addresses that only Paizo had, I think Paizo said that WotC "owned" those addresses. I could be wrong though and perhaps it was just the names pre-Paizo. The issue sort of died before I saw any resolution as to whether Paizo sold the names of customers to WotC or not.

Other possibilities: If Paizo wanted to make the announcement at GAMA, WotC obviously had to give them permission to, since I'm sure Paizo has a non-disclosure agreement, but Paizo may have had a card to play regarding the timing in the form of the Savage Tide AP. I don't know how much creative control WotC had over Paizo, but Paizo could have "negotiated" to wrap up Savage Tide by the final issue of Dungeon, rather than leaving it to WotC to complete themselves, in exchange for a more favorable timing of the announcement. Could you image the amount of anger that would be spit out if they announced that Savage Tides would be completed by WotC as part of their new DI, or not completed at all? The mods here would probably be passing out from exhaustion with all the banning they would be doing.

I imagine the contract was a yearly one, and someone could go through and figure out when it started and when it theoretically should end. Also, as I mentioned, lots of the Paizo guys freelance for WotC, so even if the AP wrapped up 'elsewhere" it'd probably still be sort of a "Paizo" thing. It'll be interesting to see how the "rights" play out, in regard to say, compilations of Dungeon material. I wonder how the fans would react to WotC publishing an Age of Worms hardcover.

Not saying anything like this happened, but I wonder what really did happen behind the scenes. I guess we'll have to wait for the E! Hollywood Story: Eric Mona to find out.

I wonder what the influences are. At some point, the WotC team looked at the periodicals as a profit stream. They previously had gotten rid of them, because the other option was to get rid of them. The Digitial Initiative may have been there, but that doesn't explain why they didn't let Paizo keep the magazines around. (It probably would have been easy to pluck stuff from the magazines for the site.) I always thought the blocking of the AoW HC was partly due to Paizo's use of Wizards IP (such as greyhawk) and perhaps WotC got tired of the way it was being used. Otherwise I'd figure they'd even involve Paizo in the DI on some level.

With the additional products Paizo was doing, perhaps WotC figured there was no reason to support what was becoming a third party competitor.