Dieties & Demigods - My Players stay out please.

[Quasqueton]

Players in my Exploring Novus Terrarum campaign, please stay out of this thread.

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I have an epic-level wizard in my campaign who in ages past learned a ritual/method of gaining divine rank. Vecna came to this wizard, as a "mortal" lich, to learn this ritual. Vecna used the method and became a god. The wizard declined divine rank because divine rank (1+) "stunts" growth. Whereas the wizard could continue gaining levels, Vecna could only grow by increasing his divine rank (more powerful and complicated rituals over time). The wizard uses epic spells, Vecna uses salient divine abilities.

The above is my take on D&D divinity. How can I reconcile the above with the D&DG godly mechanics? Note that Vecna is the only D&D god without 20HD as an outsider. (I say this is because he is not a "natural born" god.) Note also that the St. Cuthbert entry says he may have been human at one time. (I say this is because he was secretly born a god through a ritual performed while in the womb, similar to the one Vecna went through later in the lich's "life".)

How did the gods [core D&D] become gods? Simply an extremely rare race of 20HD outsiders born with divine rank? How did they get their levels in their classes? Do they actually have *levels* in their classes, or do they just have abilities equivalent to 20 levels in fighter (for instance)?

I'm asking for your ideas and opinions based on extrapolations/interpretations of the "official" mechanics of the D&D gods.

Thanks.

Quasqueton

 

[gizmo33]

I don't have the D&DG in front of me, but lack of knowledge doesn't usually stop me from posting so here are some thoughts:

Why are you interested in the "official" mechanics of DnD? Sounds like you have enough ideas about divinity to develop your own mechanics - I say use them.

I recall very little in the D&DG regarding the mechanics of divine creatures that was different from high level creatures with lots of power.

I don't see why ranks in divine would "stunt" growth. Why wouldn't the wizard who knew the ritual have used it himself?

IMO deities have levels in their classes. IMC a 10th level expert hasn't killed a tribe of hill giants in order to earn those levels. NPCs gain levels from all different sources, many of which are not avenues open to players. I think assuming that each god who has 20 levels in fighter must have earned that experience the "old-fashioned" way would cause too much chaos - monsters in the campaign would probably be extinct.

According to the mythology I'm familiar with, most gods are born that way - usually within a few generations of the first beings created on earth. "Mortals" are usually created explicitly during the beginnings of a "historical" period whereas gods have been around through "pre-historic" and "mythological" ages.

Some gods may be divinely ascended heroes. Having a rank in divine might not mean that you're "god-like" in terms of followers, or that you're even referred to as a god by people. Ex. saints. You might just be immortal and have the capacity for worshippers and stuff. I guess the "divine rank" rules cover what your general capabilities are. While a ritual might make sense to gain the initial divine rank, I think there would be other ways to gain divine ranks. In fact, IMC I don't think you could gain divine ranks from a ritual. Divine ranks IMC would be connected to "god-liness", which I would associate with a number of factors:
1. how many worshippers you have
2. how many clerics and temples you have
3. how strongly you are connected to, and support, your sphere of influence

Vecna, IMC, would be able to increase his divine rank indirectly through ritual. Perhaps a ritual that gave him control over a set of magic items - which would be an increase of item #3 and hence make him qualified for a higher divine rank. The options for hiding out somewhere and performing secret rituals to increase divine rank would be limited IMC though, and mostly ineffective. At some point, I'd want gods in my campaign to focus on worshippers and influence over the mortal world. Vecna would have to come out of his sanctuary and start messing with events in the mortal world.

I don't have these things worked out in detail. They're sort of like rules on economics - something I have in the back of my mind.

 

[Quasqueton]

Why are you interested in the "official" mechanics of DnD? Sounds like you have enough ideas about divinity to develop your own mechanics - I say use them.

Because I have the D&DG, and don't want to have to make up new rules. My ideas are just extroplations from the rules/stats in the D&DG.

Bump.

Quasqueton