Difference Between D20 Modern & Grim Tales

[Esteban]

I own D20 Modern and was thinking about picking up Grim Tales based on some of the blurbs I've read. However, I'm a little concerned that I'm going to be spending $35.00 on a book that is essentially D20 Modern with a couple of 'rule twists'. Is this the case, or is Grim Tales really different? Can anyone tell me, or post a link to an article, that describes the differences between D20 Modern and Grim Tales?

Thanks in advance for any help.

-Steve

 

[BryonD]

I'm not clear on what exactly you are expecting, but GT is certainly more than just some rules twists.

About the only thing that is taken directly from D20 Modern is the 6 base classes, and even those are evolved. For example, there is no such thing as "class skills" in GT. There is no such thing as advanced or prestige classes for that matter.

It is a stand alone work. Therefore, the skills and feats are all presented, some virtually identical as in other works and some tweaked. But that is required to make the product stand alone. The same is true for Arcana Unearthed, for example. The skills and feat are repeated, but I wouldn't call AU just D&D with a couple rules twists.

It is D20 system and everything you need is self contained in the book. So you will see familiar stuff. But heck, there is more Spycraft stuff in there than there is D20 Modern. And I would not call it Spycraft with a couple rules twists.

It is a amalgam of D20 system rules optimized to be A) low magic, grim and tough; and B) readily adaptable to any genre.

 

[haiiro]

I haven't finished reading GT yet, but when I started it I initially balked at the amount of stuff that I could have gotten from the Modern SRD -- until I noticed how many small, subtle, and often brilliant changes had been made everywhere. Trying to make those changes without reprinting some material would have resulted in an unreadable mess, and GT is anything but unreadable.

BryonD knows a heck of a lot more about GT than I do, but as someone who came to it with a few of the same concerns as you, Esteban, I'd say go for it.

 

[afstanton]

I have to say that Grim Tales rocks. The stuff on designing monsters and encounters is great. The way certain components can be checklisted and either used or not and still wind up with a viable game is really good. I hope their future stuff is just as cool.

Aaron

 

[Samurai]

Can someone post some of these rules changes between D20 Modern and Grim Tales? I've been considering both of them and I'm not sure which is better...

 

[Hammerhead]

Which one's better? Well, that's an easy question. Grim Tales wins hands down. However, if you already have d20 Modern and you enjoy it, then I don't really think Grim Tales would be worth the money. Fortunately, I hadn't even touched d20 Modern when I bought GT.

Major changes include:

No class skills. Favored skills are instead determined by background and player choice.

No Advanced Classes; instead, the Basic Classes are expanded with more talents and feats, along with a few minor tweaks.

Feats are culled from d20 Modern, 3.5 D&D, and Spycraft (especially the firearms rules). Don't expect to see all those lame skill feats everywhere. In other words, all of the feats are useful.

Encounter design rules, monster CR calculators, vehicle rules borrowed from Spycraft (but improved), etc. The list goes on and on.

 

[BryonD]

Can someone post some of these rules changes between D20 Modern and Grim Tales? I've been considering both of them and I'm not sure which is better...

What kind of game do you want to play?

Is there any rule that you are specifically interested in?

It is hard to list rule changes because GT is as different from D20 modern as D&D is.

*I* think GT is better, but I think the better question is probably: Which one is better suited to the game you want to play.

 

[the_dunner]

I've got both Grim Tales and d20 Modern. I've been running a d20 Modern campaign for about 5 months, and have been enjoying it quite a bit. I picked up Grim Tales a few weeks after I'd started it, and I regret that I didn't get it before hand. (I only picked it up after reading all the great reviews here.)

What're the biggest differences in my mind?

The reorganization of base class talents seems pretty significant.

The inclusion of Monster generation rules are very very useful. (But they seem to have a very steep learning curve to use.)

The magic rules are quite slick if you want a low magic campaign. But, if you're running a non-FX game, then they're pretty much irrelevant.

By far, my favorite rule addition is "Exploding Action Dice."

 

[Turanil]

I made a lengthy review of Grim Tales (here on Enworld Reviews). I think that Grim Tales is really a cool game, but for those who already play and enjoy d20 Modern, it may not necessarily be that worth buying it.

 

[Esteban]

Well, based on the advice on this thread I went ahead and picked up Grim Tales. From what I've read so far, it looks like it was a great investment. While I picked it up to use in a pulp mini-campaign I plan on doing sometime in the future, I 'm seriously considering putting my DND books to the side and using Grim Tales for my next project - a fantasy campaign set in medieval Europe.

Thanks to everyone for their advice.

-Steve