Bedrockgames
I post in the voice of Christopher Walken
Another aspect to rules light I think is a desire for the rules to fade as much into the background as possible
Different philosophies concerning Rules Heavy and Rule Light RPGs.
- Thread starter Golden age Superhero
- Start date
No I don't think this is true at all. FATE, Dogs, Apocalypse World and others are all rules light games where the mechanics strongly underpin and drive play.
Bedrockgames
I post in the voice of Christopher Walken
Like I said, it is an aspect. It might not be universal. But I know for me, it is part of what draws me to rules light RPGs
overgeeked
Open-World Sandbox
What exactly about my post do you consider to be inflammatory?
A characteristic of some rules light games is stake setting and user-generated traits. So a particular conflict can resolve even extremely esoteric or nuanced situations that even the most complete rules engine could not hope to anticipate, and then articulate exactly the impact that might have on the characters involved.
I think the difference is mostly one of philosophy.
To my mind in a rules heavy game the rules themselves seek to channel the gameworld, such that engaging with them is the same as engaging with the fiction directly. I'm thinking here of Rolemaster/MERP, where you select how to split your combat bonus between attack and defence, and things like that. There will be a bunch of detail about positioning and modifiers because we want to see and incorporate the various factors that could have an influence on the outcome.
In a rules light game the users are expected to provide that kind of input themselves. Not just expected to, they are assumed to want to provide that input. The job of the rules is to channel the group's idea of the fiction, to allow those inputs to be fed into the machine and an outcome determined. So the users may decide what the stakes are, what the difficulty is, and then consult the game engine to determine the result. That result can be just as determinative as in a rules heavy game (often moreso).
In both cases the rules are not a 'necessary evil' but a key and valued part of play. Games where the rules are just a necessary evil, to be disregarded, fudged, or skipped over as quickly as possible, have no value.
To my mind in a rules heavy game the rules themselves seek to channel the gameworld, such that engaging with them is the same as engaging with the fiction directly. I'm thinking here of Rolemaster/MERP, where you select how to split your combat bonus between attack and defence, and things like that. There will be a bunch of detail about positioning and modifiers because we want to see and incorporate the various factors that could have an influence on the outcome.
In a rules light game the users are expected to provide that kind of input themselves. Not just expected to, they are assumed to want to provide that input. The job of the rules is to channel the group's idea of the fiction, to allow those inputs to be fed into the machine and an outcome determined. So the users may decide what the stakes are, what the difficulty is, and then consult the game engine to determine the result. That result can be just as determinative as in a rules heavy game (often moreso).
In both cases the rules are not a 'necessary evil' but a key and valued part of play. Games where the rules are just a necessary evil, to be disregarded, fudged, or skipped over as quickly as possible, have no value.
Li Shenron
Legend
It is not my definition of rules light vs rules heavy.
For me, an example is rather: player X wants to do Y? Rules-light system calls for one roll with a bonus; rules-heavy system calls for multiple rolls each one requiring different bonus calculated by aggregating different stats.
I think the alternative between "can try anything" and "can only do what's on your character sheet" is a different distinction.
And "crunchy" is an even different matter: it's about having a lot of character mechanical options, usually opposite of "fluffy" meaning more attention devoted to narrative and roleplay, even though the two are certainly not mutually exclusive, but only competing when referred to the focus given by a game's material (single book or whole edition)
GMMichael
Guide of Modos
Different philosophies at work here:
Wild shape, D&D 6e:
Level 2: Wild Shape
The power of nature allows you to assume the form of an animal. As a Bonus Action, you shape-shift into a Beast form that you have learned for this feature (see “Known Forms” below). You stay in that form for a number of hours equal to half your Druid level or until you use Wild Shape again, have the Incapacitated condition, or die. You can also leave the form early as a Bonus Action.
Number of Uses. You can use Wild Shape twice. You regain one expended use when you finish a Short Rest, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a Long Rest.
You gain additional uses when you reach certain Druid levels, as shown in the Wild Shape column of the Druid Features table.
Known Forms. You know four Beast forms for this feature, chosen from among Beast stat blocks that have a maximum Challenge Rating of 1/4 and that lack a Fly Speed (see appendix B for stat block options). The Rat, Riding Horse, Spider, and Wolf are recommended. Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can replace one of your known forms with another eligible form.
When you reach certain Druid levels, your number of known forms and the maximum Challenge Rating for those forms increases, as shown in the Beast Shapes table. In addition, starting at level 8, you can adopt a form that has a Fly Speed.
When choosing known forms, you may look in the Monster Manual or elsewhere for eligible Beasts if the Dungeon Master permits you to do so.
Beast Shapes
Druid Level Known Forms Max CR Fly Speed
2 4 1/4 No
4 6 1/2 No
8 8 1 Yes
Rules While Shape-Shifted. While in a form, you retain your personality, memories, and ability to speak, and the following rules apply:
Temporary Hit Points. When you assume a Wild Shape form, you gain a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to your Druid level.
Game Statistics. Your game statistics are replaced by the Beast’s stat block, but you retain your creature type; Hit Points; Hit Point Dice; Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores; class features; languages; and feats. You also retain your skill and saving throw proficiencies and use your Proficiency Bonus for them, in addition to gaining the proficiencies of the creature. If a skill or saving throw modifier in the Beast’s stat block is higher than yours, use the one in the stat block.
No Spellcasting. You can’t cast spells, but shape-shifting doesn’t break your Concentration or otherwise interfere with a spell you’ve already cast.
Objects. Your ability to handle objects is determined by the form’s limbs rather than your own. In addition, you choose whether your equipment falls in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it. Worn equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it’s practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment based on the creature’s size and shape. Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can’t wear must either fall to the ground or merge with the form. Equipment that merges with the form has no effect while you’re in that form.
Wild shape, Modos 2:
Alter 1
Range: close
Target: self
D/M: +4/yes
Effect: you change your form or appearance into someone or something of a similar size. This power does not alter your character elements, but the Guide can award the +2 role-playing bonus (or penalty) where appropriate.
Half: no defense. An observer may use a Mental contest to notice something unusual about the magic-user.
- better yet -
Hero Point: I can take beast shape when in moonlight.
Wild shape, D&D 6e:
Level 2: Wild Shape
The power of nature allows you to assume the form of an animal. As a Bonus Action, you shape-shift into a Beast form that you have learned for this feature (see “Known Forms” below). You stay in that form for a number of hours equal to half your Druid level or until you use Wild Shape again, have the Incapacitated condition, or die. You can also leave the form early as a Bonus Action.
Number of Uses. You can use Wild Shape twice. You regain one expended use when you finish a Short Rest, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a Long Rest.
You gain additional uses when you reach certain Druid levels, as shown in the Wild Shape column of the Druid Features table.
Known Forms. You know four Beast forms for this feature, chosen from among Beast stat blocks that have a maximum Challenge Rating of 1/4 and that lack a Fly Speed (see appendix B for stat block options). The Rat, Riding Horse, Spider, and Wolf are recommended. Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can replace one of your known forms with another eligible form.
When you reach certain Druid levels, your number of known forms and the maximum Challenge Rating for those forms increases, as shown in the Beast Shapes table. In addition, starting at level 8, you can adopt a form that has a Fly Speed.
When choosing known forms, you may look in the Monster Manual or elsewhere for eligible Beasts if the Dungeon Master permits you to do so.
Beast Shapes
Druid Level Known Forms Max CR Fly Speed
2 4 1/4 No
4 6 1/2 No
8 8 1 Yes
Rules While Shape-Shifted. While in a form, you retain your personality, memories, and ability to speak, and the following rules apply:
Temporary Hit Points. When you assume a Wild Shape form, you gain a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to your Druid level.
Game Statistics. Your game statistics are replaced by the Beast’s stat block, but you retain your creature type; Hit Points; Hit Point Dice; Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores; class features; languages; and feats. You also retain your skill and saving throw proficiencies and use your Proficiency Bonus for them, in addition to gaining the proficiencies of the creature. If a skill or saving throw modifier in the Beast’s stat block is higher than yours, use the one in the stat block.
No Spellcasting. You can’t cast spells, but shape-shifting doesn’t break your Concentration or otherwise interfere with a spell you’ve already cast.
Objects. Your ability to handle objects is determined by the form’s limbs rather than your own. In addition, you choose whether your equipment falls in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it. Worn equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it’s practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment based on the creature’s size and shape. Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can’t wear must either fall to the ground or merge with the form. Equipment that merges with the form has no effect while you’re in that form.
Wild shape, Modos 2:
Alter 1
Range: close
Target: self
D/M: +4/yes
Effect: you change your form or appearance into someone or something of a similar size. This power does not alter your character elements, but the Guide can award the +2 role-playing bonus (or penalty) where appropriate.
Half: no defense. An observer may use a Mental contest to notice something unusual about the magic-user.
- better yet -
Hero Point: I can take beast shape when in moonlight.
overgeeked
Open-World Sandbox
Dungeon World
Shapeshifter
When you call upon the spirits to change your shape, roll+Wis. ✴On a 10+ hold 3. ✴On a 7–9 hold 2. ✴On a miss hold 1 in addition to whatever the GM says.
You may take on the physical form of any species whose essence you have studied or who lives in your land: you and your possessions meld into a perfect copy of the species’ form. You have any innate abilities and weaknesses of the form: claws, wings, gills, breathing water instead of air. You still use your normal stats but some moves may be harder to trigger—a housecat will find it hard to do battle with an ogre. The GM will also tell you one or more moves associated with your new form. Spend 1 hold to make that move. Once you’re out of hold, you return to your natural form. At any time, you may spend all your hold and revert to your natural form.
Animal moves just say what the animal naturally does, like “call the pack,” “trample them,” or “escape to the air.” When you spend your hold your natural instinct kicks in and that move happens. If you spend hold to escape to the air, that’s it—you’re away and on the wing.
Over the Edge 3E
Your main trait defines your core set of skills and capabilities, and it covers a lot of ground. Your side trait gives you some specific advantage, capability, talent, or expertise, especially something not already covered by your main trait. You are presumed to be competent and effective at what you do. Your skills related to your traits are assumed to be remarkable.
Main Trait: Shapeshifting Druid from the 12th Dimension.
Golden age Superhero
Explorer
When I first started playing Castles and Crusades I had a player who even though they really preferred games like Pathfinder she didn't say that she liked that the rules didn't get in the way of the story.
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