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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 2321506" data-attributes="member: 4937">I pretty much agree.  If you fall into the water, you are free to forgo a swim check.  If you do, you automatically fail that swim check and sink.  If you are riding a horse at a gallop in difficult terrain, you are free to forgo a ride check unless you wish to use that skill in some way - for example to stay on the horse.  I won't make you use your ride skill, but the situation calls on a ride check and there are consequences if you don't.   Likewise, if you running down an ice covered staircase, I the DM have no right to demand you make a balance skill check, but you better believe that if you choose to forgo that skill check there will be consequences.  Likewise, if you are casting a spell under adverse conditions, noone is going to 'make' you make a Concentration check; but, if you choose to forgo that concentration check when the situation calls for one then well you don't get a spell.  It's just that simple.  Virtually every skill has this aspect.  One is never required to move silently, but if one doesn't, then one isn't silent.So if the Duchess comes up to you and says, "So, you are the hero that we have been hearing so many good things about?", you can stand there and stare the Duchess in the face without saying a word, but if you choose to do that then I assure you that you will have committed a major social faux pas.  Choosing to forgo your Diplomacy check in a social situation is pretty much the same as automatically failing.  In particular, I find the whole debate rather silly, because unless you are distracted, you can simply take 10 on a diplomacy check and be gauranteed not to make things worse.  The socially awkward characters mutters out the briefest thing he can think of, "I-i-i d-don't know, ma'am, I mean..you Grace.", and the Duchess - if she has no particular reason to be irritated - just says something witty, smiles and moves on thinking the character to be an uncultured bore, but at least a highly useful one.But the logic that you can get into a social situation and not have to make a charisma check of some sort unless you want to is utterly ridiculous. I for one am getting really tired of this whole anything not expressly permitted by the rules is forbidden attitude.  For crying out loud, if the DM can't request a low charisma character make a charisma check, what ever is the consequences of having a low charisma?</blockquote>

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