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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primitive Screwhead" data-source="post: 2348016" data-attributes="member: 20805">Read in full, thank you.Thank you for the input, but not the attitude.However, if you read back upthread you will find that what I am saying is more like: The system should reflect the characters skill, not the players. The player should be able to have a consistant framework to be able to judge success/failure. The GiantTip rules go a long way towards this.  A possible addition to those rules are to define the element of 'how long should this take', with an array of sample for the player to work from. As each instance of Diplomancy varies from character to character, this element should have a degree of randomness and should impact the success and/or failure of a skill check. Without the degree of randomness, this element needlessly complicates the game. With the element added, the character should gain either boon or bane from getting it right.   {If one uses a Sense Motive check to guage this element, then the min/maxed characters must siphon off points to support this. Normal Diplomat builds build up Sense Motive anyway. This weakens the extreme end of the spectrum, adds a bit of interesting difference into the system, and provides more roleplaying meat for the game. YMMV}And, since you apparently missed it in your haste to reply....The OP is/was concerned with providing his player with more detail on the inner workings of the Diplomancy check than is available in the RAW/SRD and to ensure a relative level of standardization from one check to the next. That way the player can have a good idea of what his *characters* skills are capable of instead of expecting a Diplomancy check to end up like trying to use a Wish spell.Anyway.. YMMV, JMHO, and all the other typical acronyms to declare that my posting here is simply an expression of my opinion, and is probably not the best answer ... but it is my answer  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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