Dirty Trick + Strat Match = Stupid Trick

[Jin Chi]

Explain to me how DT doesn't suck in every way when compared to Bribe Judges.

And the yen is meaningless to the sash. They have it pouring out of their eyeballs.

I think Chi Strike is pointless too as it is more of a disadvantage than an advantage.

 

[reiella]

Initiative in and off itself is only an advantage in strategy matches or fishing.

I do hope we don't take to balancing powers relative to fishing potential however.

Yep, or of course, the fighter could use chi strike and have an unblockable 3 point move instead. While at best, the yak will be able to block the other 3 points in the next round. Or have the risk completely negated by spending 20 yen (5 yen = item, 5 yen power, 5 yen power not on path, 5 yen activated power)...

 

[Vanor]

I agree that DT isn't as good as Bribe. I think bribe should be used the same way a DT is, before the sash fighter generates his/her move. Altho using bribe in a fight you don't win, can be rather painful, as your going to lose 2xTier in yen, if you want to avoid losing rank.

Chi Strike, can be used against more then DT.

But none of that changes the fact that letting the person who used a DT, pick what move is discarded would break DT.

 

[Vanor]

Initiative in and off itself is only an advantage in strategy matches or fishing.

I do hope we don't take to balancing powers relative to fishing potential however.

Well we're talking about strat matches here, so fishing isn't a factor. In a traditional match DT doesn't work exactly the same way, as you don't have to discard a move if you use DT.

 

[Wicht]

Bribe judges is very nice, It is perhaps the best ability in the whole game - and if I was going to change it, the only way I would would to perhaps make it cost 3 yen instead of 2 yen. The sash however can only use bribe judges a limited number of times in a match, a point well worth remembering. A sash with yen coming out of their ears can still only bribe so many times before they have to play the game honest.

As for dirty trick, it is not supposed to be a game winning power - it is supposed to be a game delaying power. Personally, I think that dirty trick is more easily used in a strategy match than in a normal match. For one thing it enables you to go last which is very useful in a strategy match. Second, it allows you to pick what you think your opponents best move is and get rid of it. Timing is everything however with dirty trick. If you use it while you have a game winning move in your hand, and yes we do all know that some moves are better than others, then you deserve to lose anyway. The point of the powers is, after all, to put a little more control of the game in the hand of the players so they can make intelligent decisions that help them win. It often works best in the 3rd round a hand, but if you are in the first round of the first hand and you are a yakuza fighting an honor fighter who just used fist of fury with a signature style in each of the two moves then it makes since to sacrifice a single good move to prevent a possible four point hit.

I have always enjoyed having dirty tricks as a villain and especially in strategy matches. used right it will make your opponent tear out his hair in frustration. And Vanor is exactly right. If you could choose yourself which move to discard then it would be too powerful.

 

[reiella]

I do personally agree that the ability for the villain to choose which goes away would be too powerful. I also don't think it'd be all to feasible to have the judge randomly select (would require dice access really which isn't too feasible) which power to remove.

In all though, I do feel that Dirty Tricks is alot more useful as an initiative tool in a strategy match than as its direct purpose. Although it may a bit too strong in that respect (and also... Chi Strike on that note.... being forced to go first in a strategy matches moves Chi Strike to be a fair bit more troublesome for the fighter with them) and often just ends up burned the first round to remove that risk.

Quick fun question, if I were to purchase Chi Strike for Gamera, or say a light/honor purchases Dirty Trick for their item, how would initiative work?

Another fun bit I'm kinda curious on (that should rarely if ever come up), what would happen if an item has a style immunity and they advance to a rank that grants a new style (and they happen to have the item style for their last move)? Should it progress to the next valid style choice (as even though the item style bonus and character style do stack, the immunities do not), or is the immunity power pretty much just considered waste space? Also would this also be the case more generally with Signature Styles and Locations from items?

[ add: ] It is my perception and view that they just get screwed out of the yen and power slot that they spent, which I don't really see much problem/trouble with either way.

 

[Vanor]

Quick fun question, if I were to purchase Chi Strike for Gamera, or say a light/honor purchases Dirty Trick for their item, how would initiative work?

I'd say it would be based on rank. With the init being decided based on the 'native' power of the highest ranked fighter. So even if you had Chi Strike on Gamera, you'd go last because your DT would be 'natitive' to your path.

 

[Wicht]

I'd say it would be based on rank. With the init being decided based on the 'native' power of the highest ranked fighter. So even if you had Chi Strike on Gamera, you'd go last because your DT would be 'natitive' to your path.

That sounds good to me.

Are you still judging matches Vanor?

And Reiella, The immunity on the item would be wasted if the fighter subsequently gained the immunity for themselves.

 

[reiella]

What I thought on terms of the immunity. Could be spelled out better in the rules however. As could other clarifications heh.

Especially since it seems Holy Day + Holy Warrior is better at being a trick (unless as some people have been saying Holy Day also requires first initiative too), although I've also heard that holy warrior not granting immunity so I really don't know.

 

[Vanor]

Are you still judging matches Vanor?

Yes I still judge matches from time to time.