D&D 4E Disarm in 4E

[Rothe_]

The worst problem with weaken as an at-will disarm condition is that it hoses solos and elites too much. You should not be able to disarm a solo monster with a single use of an at-will. Fights against solos would be ruined by stuff like that.

 

[LostSoul]

Just disarm the weapon and toss it over a cliff and that's it for the rest of the encounter if he has no backup weapon. That is just way too powerful compared to any existing powers.

Or, you know, push him over the cliff and that's it for the rest of the encounter.

 

[Tai]

Or, you know, push him over the cliff and that's it for the rest of the encounter.

Which is why Solos you fight on a cliff should have some forced movement resistance, or be able to fly, or something similar. The point is that reducing someone's attack and/or damage for the rest of the encounter is too powerful an effect to be included in an at-will, just like any effect that lasts until the end of the encounter. If you can disarm someone that easily, the only solution will be to have the solo carry half a dozen weapons, or give him natural weapons instead... And you can guarantee that that'll annoy your simulationist player, especially if he builds his character to do disarms all day.

 

[unan oranis]

LET THE SIMULATIONIST HAVE HIS WAY.

If he's a fan of simulation, he'll like your nifty details such as the 1 cp leather loop protecting your monsters from being disarmed; I know it's handy on my super realistic umbrella.

And thats for the level 1 monsters. Obviously you'd be seeing super-webbing and force-threads at higher levels.

Oh, and theres the actual rule that magic weapons come back to your hand when thrown, so one could assume that every magic-item crafter in the universe would include insurance against disarm and maybe even rust protection as standard.

Now if he wants a super cool ninja who disarms people, as an exceptionally talented hero, well that seems like a good place to start declaring that powers and feats are required.

 

[Garthanos]

Sigh wanting frequent disarms ... is not "simulationist" or "realistic" its actually cinematic. And in the cinema ... heros are rarely as dependent on their toys(insert exceptions of artifact wielders here) as they are in D&D ... Enemies that are minions sprinkled all over the place are a perfect for the Zorro / Jackie Chan etc character - combine that with describing various powers as temporary disarms and it really should make that player happy (but if the player "really" wants to hack the game to get more advantage than he should because he was able to do that in another version well that is a different and social issue).

I repeat easy disarming is not sim/realistic even without the tethering magic which is standard in D&D (good point unan).

 

[LostSoul]

Let's review what 4E is all about:

PHB, page 6: A Roleplaying Game

While the D&D game uses dice and miniatures, the action takes place in your imagination. There, you have the freedom to create anything you can imagine, with an unlimited special effects budget and the technology to make anything happen.

The DM makes D&D infinitely flexible - he or she can react to any situation, any twist or turn suggested by the players, to make a D&D adventure vibrant, exciting, and unexpected.

The DM sets the scene, but no one knows what's going to happen until the characters so domething - and then anything can happen!

In an adventure, you can attempt anything you can think of.​

PHB, page 286: Actions in Combat

This section describes how to perform the most common actions that are available to you on your turn.

The list isn't exhaustive - you can try to do anything you can imagine your character doing in the game world. The rules in this section cover the most common actions, and they can serve as a guide for figuring out what happens when you try something not in the rules.​

DMG, pag 42: Additional Rules - Actions the rules don't cover

Your presence as the Dungeon Master is what makes D&D such a great game. You make it possible for the players to try anything they can imagine. That means it's your job to resolve unusual actions when the players try them.​

There are a lot of ways to resolve disarms. The DM has to resolve it appropriately for the group he's in. But to say that disarms are somehow not a part of D&D is a really strange statement.

 

[Turtlejay]

If someone wants to try a one-time-only disarm, that's cool, page 42 for some options, or some of the good suggestions here, I think what people have an issue with regarding disarming is the direct import of a 3.5 mechanic into a 4e game where the system won't tolerate it well. Not to mention that such builds were often cheesy exploit filled garbage in the last edition.

Several alternatives have been put forward here. Lists of feats, and use of minions to make up for the removal of disarm. These are DMs (and players) doing exactly what the passages you quoted suggest. Too bad that it is not a game breaking at will mechanic, too bad that it doesn't fit with what you want.

Disarming is D&D, sure!

Jay

 

[LostSoul]

I guess my point is that if you're not able to try anything you can imagine, that breaks the game more than some advantage on the battlemap.

 

[Regicide]

There are a lot of ways to resolve disarms. The DM has to resolve it appropriately for the group he's in. But to say that disarms are somehow not a part of D&D is a really strange statement.

No, not really strange at all, BECAUSE IT ISN'T. Replace "my character wants to disarm" with "my character wants to do called-shot neck and decapitate with every swing." Guess what, SAME ANSWER, it only works when they're at 0 HPs.

Disarm - attack
special: perform any other attack you can legally do, if it reduces the target to 0 or fewer HPs and they die, they instead become disarmed.

Decapitating Blow - attack
special: perform any other attack you can legally do, if it reduces the target to 0 or fewer HPs and they die, their head falls off and can now be used as a bowling ball.

 

[LostSoul]

No, not really strange at all, BECAUSE IT ISN'T. Replace "my character wants to disarm" with "my character wants to do called-shot neck and decapitate with every swing." Guess what, SAME ANSWER, it only works when they're at 0 HPs.

Why would you make that ruling? What purpose would it serve?

(The "at-will disarm" of mine is to make it so that PCs can take any action they can imagine, so that the game world can remain real and can be interacted with, so that unexpected and out-of-the-box tactics can be employed, and to reward creativity and expand the range of choices a player can make.)