Disbelieving Illusions

[Trainz]

Something came up...

You can disbelieve an illusion if you see that something is amiss.

What about mirror image ? It is clear that something is amiss, and it's an illusion spell. Can you spend a standard action to disbelieve it, and if successful, see where the caster really is ?

By the same token, can you do the same with displacement ?

If possible, please include a book reference or FAQ ruling to enforce whatever ruling (for or against) is the right one.

Thanks !

 

[MerakSpielman]

All I could find was from the SRD:

Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief ): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

It seems to indicate that all people are totally unable to suspect that something is amiss without studying it carefully or interacting with it in some fashion. You cannot, for instance, choose to "disbelieve" a given thing, just to see if it's an illusion. Interacting with a mirror image makes the image go away, so that's not really a problem. But interacting with a displacement... that's an interesting question. If somebody attacks somebody who's displaced, does it count as interacting with the illusion for purposes of gaining a saving throw and being able to ignore its effects?

 

[Hypersmurf]

If it doesn't have "Will Disbelief" in the stat block, or else deal with disbelieving specifically in the spell text, it can't be disbelieved.

You can't disbelieve Silence. You can't disbelieve Greater Invisibility. You can't disbelieve Mirror Image.

-Hyp.

 

[Trainz]

All I could find was from the SRD:
It seems to indicate that all people are totally unable to suspect that something is amiss without studying it carefully or interacting with it in some fashion. You cannot, for instance, choose to "disbelieve" a given thing, just to see if it's an illusion. Interacting with a mirror image makes the image go away, so that's not really a problem.

Well, what if you want to disbelieve the whole thing ? When disbelieving, the illusion remains as a faint outline. If you strike an image, it disappears.

But interacting with a displacement... that's an interesting question. If somebody attacks somebody who's displaced, does it count as interacting with the illusion for purposes of gaining a saving throw and being able to ignore its effects?

Well, displacement isn't a figment or phantasm, it's a glamer... I don't know if that changes anything.

What they should have done is create a sub-category of illusion (glamer for example) and say that you CAN'T disbelieve those, and apply glamer to displacement and mirror image. Would have been simple and straightforward.

But NOOOooooo...

 

[Trainz]

If it doesn't have "Will Disbelief" in the stat block, or else deal with disbelieving specifically in the spell text, it can't be disbelieved.

You can't disbelieve Silence. You can't disbelieve Greater Invisibility. You can't disbelieve Mirror Image.

-Hyp.

Makes sense. Thanks !