Disbelieving Mirror Image?

[Cloudgatherer]

I was using some creatures who had mirror image as a spell like ability at will. As the battle wore on, my rogue took his action to disbelieve the illusion. As I looked through the rules, this appears to be a legal move. Thinking about it, this kind of makes the spell very ineffective, and am wondering if I made the right call. Any suggestions?

 

[Petrosian]

mirror image has no saving throws per the PHB. if it had one it would be listed.

Spells such as Major image has saving throws listed as WILL (disbelief) and how those disbelief saves work is detailed on PHB page 158 under the section about disbelief saves.

 

[Artoomis]

Also, it's an Illusion (Figment), not an Illusion (Phantasm). Only phantasm have any possibility of disbelief.

Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.) Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language the character can speak. If the character tries to duplicate a language the character cannot speak, the image produces gibberish. Likewise, the character cannot make a visual copy of something unless the character knows what it looks like.

Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, illuminate darkness, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly. For example, it is possible to use a silent image spell to create an illusory cottage, but the cottage offers no protection from rain. A clever caster, however, can take pains to make the place look old and decrepit, so that the rain falling on the occupants seems to fall from a leaky roof.

Phantasm: A phantasm spell creates a mental image that usually only the caster and the subject (or subjects) of the spell can perceive. This impression is totally in the minds of the subjects. It is a personalized mental impression. (It's all in their heads and not a fake picture or something that they actually see.) Third parties viewing or studying the scene don't notice the phantasm at all. All phantasms are mind-affecting spells.

Hope that helps.

 

[Anubis]

Mirror Image is not subject to disbelief for the same reason Invisibility is not subject to disbelief.

Here is the address for the thread.

http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&postid=101559#post101559

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Also, it's an Illusion (Figment), not an Illusion (Phantasm). Only phantasm have any possibility of disbelief.

Reference? The character in question had been interacting with the illusions for several rounds of combat, and reading over the disbelief section of the PHB, I don't see such a restriction. A reference of any kind saying only phatasms can be disbelieved would solve my problem.

 

[AuraSeer]

The applicable line is in the spell statblock, where it says "Saving throw: None." No save means no save. Disbelief is a save, so it's not applicable against this spell.

 

[bleedthefreak]

Also, it's an Illusion (Figment), not an Illusion (Phantasm). Only phantasm have any possibility of disbelief.

I think you are mistaken, for example, (from the SRD)

Silent Image

Illusion (Figment)
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect: Visual figment that cannot extend beyond four 10-ft. cubes + one 10-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration: Concentration
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with)
Spell Resistance: No

Clearly Figments allow saves as well. Figments would be FAR overpowered if there was no save against them.

 

[Zenon]

Let's put it here so everyone can see what we're looking at:

Mirror Image

Illusion (Figment)
Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal (see text)
Target: The character
Duration: 1 minute/level

Several illusory duplicates of the character pop into being, making it difficult for enemies to know which target to attack. The figments stay near the character and disappear when struck.

Mirror image creates 1d4 images plus one image per three caster levels (maximum eight images). These figments separate from the character and remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or the character. The character can move into and through a mirror image. When the character and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is the character and which the image. The figments may also move through each other. The figments mimic the character's actions, pretending to cast spells when the character casts a spell, drink potions when the character drinks a potion, levitate when the character levitates, and so on.

Enemies attempting to attack the character or cast spells at the character must select from among indistinguishable targets. Generally, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. Any successful attack roll against a figment destroys it. A figment’s AC is 10 + size modifier + Dexterity modifier. Figments seem to react normally to area spells (such as looking like they’re burned or dead after being struck by a fireball).

While moving, the character can merge with and split off from figments so that enemies who have learned which image is real are again confounded.

An attacker must be able to see the images to be fooled. If the character is invisible or an attacker shuts her eyes, the spell has no effect, though being unable to see carries the same penalties as being blinded: In addition to the obvious effects, a blinded creature suffers a 50% miss chance in combat (all opponents have full concealment), loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, grants a +2 bonus to attackers’ attack rolls (they are effectively invisible), moves at half speed, and suffers a –4 penalty on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skills.

There are several ways around this spell, however, disbelief is not an option. You stated the rogue was in "battle", so striking an image succesfully (only needing to make a melee touch hit for the AC needed) will automatically dispell the image struck. You can do this with melee, thrown or ranged weapons.

However, the best bet for your rogue probably would have been to shut his eyes and let his Listen skill guide him to the targets. Granted, it's not perfect, but it can be done.

For wizards and sorcerers it's a little easier, dump a magic missile barrage into the mirror images, one missile per image (and the caster may be included in there). When the missile hits and it's an image, it goes away automatically. If one actually happens to randomly hit the caster, he won't go away and you just pinpointed him for your friends until he gets to move/go on his round again and can mix himself back up with the images.

Also a Dispel Magic will take care of it, as will the images entering a Minor or Major Globe of Invulnerability or Antimagic Shell.

I know the mage info has no bearing on what your rogue could do.

Also, remember that there are some creatures who are immune to figments (Duegar (grey dwarf)? Barghest? I can't remember, I was just looking at it last night....) so mirror image would have no effect on them. They'll be able to "see the real you".

 

[Galfridus]

However, the best bet for your rogue probably would have been to shut his eyes and let his Listen skill guide him to the targets. Granted, it's not perfect, but it can be done.

"Can't use vision or hearing to distinguish," so that's not going to work.

This spell obviously didn't get the going over it needed in order to be in line with the properties of Figments: it doesn't say (except implicitly) what senses are affected; it doesn't say specifically that intelligible speech is allowed; it doesn't say explicitly that no saving throws are allowed. Personally, I would take the "indistinguishable" line from the spell description, combine that with the lack of listed saving throw, and say that no "disbelief" is possible. Of course, disbelief is no longer the standard way to see through illusions -- instead, tell your DM "I study it carefully".

If your Rogue were a Shifter, he could shift into Kuo-Toa form and be immune to figments.

 

[Zenon]

"Can't use vision or hearing to distinguish," so that's not going to work.

Opps, guess I missed that (even after I went through the trouble to post the description. )

Kuo-Toa! that was one of the ones I was looking at last night! I knew it was something I saw recently....