Disciple of the Sun (Moon)

[Iku Rex]

Right -it's the moon domain that extends turning to include lycanthropes.

No it doesn't. It's a separate ability, with separate turning attempts, much like the elemental turning powers.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yes - it appears the effect here is to make turning lycanthropes work the same way as turning undead.

The same way "as a good cleric turns undead". If subsequent effects alter how undead are turned, though, should that have relevance to how lycanthropes, elementals, or plants are turned?

A good cleric turns undead in a certain fashion. A good cleric with a Phylactery turns undead differently. I don't agree that the differences carry over to lycanthropes, elementals, or plants.

Hmmm... probably. A monk gets their unarmed strike damage, so why not?

Weapon Specialization: Grapple is a separate feat. Would you add +4 if the character had both?

Or would the WS: Grapple feat do nothing, since WS: Grapple adds to grapple damage rather than unarmed strike damage, but the damage dealt while grappling is the unarmed strike damage (to which the feat does not add)?

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

No it doesn't. It's a separate ability, with separate turning attempts, much like the elemental turning powers.

I see you point. Perhaps you are right after all. The fact that it gets separate turning attempts seems to me to be the distinguishing characteristics.

Still, the fact that it can destroy them just as with undead makes it awfully similar.

Also:

Turning Other Creatures
Some clerics have the ability to turn creatures other than undead.

The turning check result is determined as normal.

Hmm.. some room for doubt, for sure.

 

[werk]

If a cleric has the moon domain, which allows Turn Lycanthrope in addition to Turn Undead, and then took Disciple of the Sun (use 2 turn attempts to destroy instead of turn undead), could he destroy lycanthropes also with 2 turn lycanthrope attempts?

Moon Domain - Granted Power:
You can turn or destroy lycanthropes as a good cleric turns or destroys undead. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to 3+Cha mod.

Just like elementals, it is a separate turning pool and is unrelated to turning undead except in description.

 

[Artoomis]

...Weapon Specialization: Grapple is a separate feat. Would you add +4 if the character had both?

Or would the WS: Grapple feat do nothing, since WS: Grapple adds to grapple damage rather than unarmed strike damage, but the damage dealt while grappling is the unarmed strike damage (to which the feat does not add)?

-Hyp.

What do you think?

 

[Artoomis]

Moon Domain - Granted Power:
You can turn or destroy lycanthropes as a good cleric turns or destroys undead. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to 3+Cha mod.

Just like elementals, it is a separate turning pool and is unrelated to turning undead except in description.

You know, in re-reading this, I could see it easily read to NOT be a seperate pool of turning attempts, but a restatement of the rule that you get 3+Cha mod attempts per day. It would not be the first time WotC has restated a rule when it only added confusion to do so.

It does seem incredibly powerful to have double the number of times to channel energy in a day.

 

[Hypersmurf]

What do you think?

I think that grappling deals damage equivalent to your unarmed strike, but that bonuses that specifically affect your unarmed strike damage (like WS) do not apply to your damage while grappling.

Like a Fire cleric turns Water creatures like a good cleric turns undead, but bonuses that specifically affect turning undead do not affect turning Water creatures.

It does seem incredibly powerful to have double the number of times to channel energy in a day.

EXTRA TURNING [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Ability to turn or rebuke creatures.

Benefit: Each time you take this feat, you can use your ability to turn or rebuke creatures four more times per day than normal.

If you have the ability to turn or rebuke more than one kind of creature each of your turning or rebuking abilities gains four additional uses per day.

Remember, turning Elementals or Plants doesn't allow you to power, say, the Divine Might feat. The feats specifically require a Turn Undead attempt, not just a Turn attempt. (I think Complete Divine or Complete Adventurer might have some Divine feats that use Elemental Turning as the power source, but those ones can't use Turn Undead.)

The extra turn attempts are pretty restricted in what can be done with them.

-Hyp.

 

[werk]

You know, in re-reading this, I could see it easily read to NOT be a seperate pool of turning attempts,....

It looks like that great elemental turning thread was lost in the apocolyptic server purge of mid-06. There were a lot of great quotes and references made in that thread that were very convincing...