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Discussing Mr Rhexx Homebrew Armor
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8773401" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>So, I've seen two videos now, one from Mr. Rhexx and one from, I believe it was the Dungeon Coach (who had talked to Mr Rhexx) and they both designed a homebrew armor system with the same basic rules. And Mr Rhexx just released a video announcing this and saying he's playtested this system over three campaigns, but.... I don't think it would actually do many of the things he is claiming it does.</p><p></p><p>Now, I'd test it, but all the games I have that sort of control over ATM are with brand new players and I've got no space to try messing with the rules. So, I figured the next best thing was to talk about it here, because... I don't know. I feel like there is a good idea here, but that this fundamentally doesn't work as designed. </p><p></p><p>Now, to be even more fair, I've not purchased his rule set, so maybe there are details missing from his explanation in the video, but here is the basics that I've got.</p><p></p><p>All AC is 10+Dex mod. If a monster attacks you and rolls less than 10 + dex mod, they miss you.</p><p></p><p>Putting on armor does not actually increase your AC, instead it gives you damage reduction.</p><p></p><p>Now, I want to pause here for a second. I think Dungeon Coaches proposed rules were that if the attack hits between your 10+dex mod and the AC the Armor would give you, then it still hits and you get the damage reduction, but you take full damage if it is over the Armor Class of the Armor. Mr. Rhexx's seems to be that AC is always 10+Dex mod and that getting hit at all while wearing armor gives you the damage. However, the damage reduction is "minimum 1"</p><p></p><p>Shields still increase AC as normal. Magical armor gives a +1 to AC and +1 to the damage reduction.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So... it would work like this, and I want to focus on Rhexx's rules for right now, because they are just simpler.</p><p></p><p>If a Rogue with a +4 Dex puts on Studded Leather armor, they have an AC of 14 and a damage reduction of 2 (12-10 = 2). If an attack would roll below a 14, they dodge. If it is over 14, they take the hit, but reduce the damage by 2.</p><p></p><p>The Paladin on the other hand, with a Dex of 10 has an AC of 10, and if they put on Platemail and a shield, then their AC increases to 12, and they have a damage reduction of 8.</p><p></p><p>Now, he claims this makes the Paladin "really feel like a tank" because they reduce the incoming damage so much, but they are getting hit constantly. And here is where I find my big initial problem with the base system. Let us say that these are mid-level adventurers. They are fighting an Owlbear, pretty standard. The Rogue still has an AC of 14, and with the Owlbear's +7 to hit, they are getting hit about 70% of the time, for nearly full damage. But, the Rogue could have only had +2 more AC, which would have dropped it to 60%. Meanwhile, the Paladin has an AC of 12, meaning that they are getting hit 80% of the time, and while they are reducing the damage by 8, the Owlbear averages 10 and 14 damage respectively, meaning that they are still taking 8 damage on average every turn. Meanwhile the rogue is not getting hit.</p><p></p><p>So, to me, while you take very little damage, at low-levels where you don't have a lot of health, you are just going to get smashed while the rogue is going to be doing about the same, and dodging attacks. (Also of note, Shield of faith and similar spells are supposed to increase the DR, not AC)</p><p></p><p>But, unless you start adding magical armor, this is it, these are the best armors. So what happens at CR 10 or so? Let's take a Behir, CR 11 and assume that the normal ASI progression has occured. The Rogue has maxed Dex, and the Paladin has focused on Cha, Con and Str. Rogue's AC is 15, with 2 DR. Paladin's AC is 12, with 8 DR</p><p></p><p>A Behir has an attack mod of +10. Now, the rogue, again, is not too far off from where they were before. They are only down two AC, and they are taking about the same damage. But, the paladin? They are getting hit 95% of the time. They will never not be getting hit. And while they reduce the damage by 8, the Behir is dealing 22 and 17/17 damage per turn. That means that you will basically always be taking 14 and 26 or 40 points of damage. That doesn't feel like a tank to me. That feels like a dead character. Even if we cast shield of Faith that only brings it to 36 points of damage.</p><p></p><p>But it gets worse.</p><p></p><p>There are two other rules he mentioned, and they are devasting for this paladin. The first is that if an attack has advantage, say from being restrained because you where constricted by a Behir, then your DR is halved. The second is that if the attack rolls 10 pts higher than your AC, then your DR is halved. That means the Behir needs to only roll a 12 or higher, to get a total of 22, and the paladin is only reducing 4 or 5 damage from that attack. Which means that they are taking between 48 and 46 damage every turn.</p><p></p><p></p><p>He's explained why he wanted a system like this, he's expressed a few frustrations. The limits on armor progression, caused by armor only having a single meaningful stat, the ability for even low to mid level characters to get ACs in the 20's which are nearly impossible for low CR creatures to hit. And worse if you have an AC stacking build like what a paladin or Artificer can do.</p><p></p><p>I like the idea of adding DR to special armors, giving more of a range of options where you can buy armor that is better than the standard, or with differing abilities so it isn't just purely "which gives best AC" but this method just seems to nerf strength based builds into the ground. Especially since he proposes to do the same for the monsters, so that Behir would be easy to hit, but have a DR of 4 I think, which of course a Barbarian could cleave through with advantage, but a fighter? A fighter is just dealing less damage and getting hit more.</p><p></p><p>Do people think I'm missing something here? I've seen a few places where this seems well-received, but it seems like it is just brutal to me.</p><p></p><p>Linking the video, if people want the source: [MEDIA=youtube]E4BwzEmUpdQ[/MEDIA]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8773401, member: 6801228"] So, I've seen two videos now, one from Mr. Rhexx and one from, I believe it was the Dungeon Coach (who had talked to Mr Rhexx) and they both designed a homebrew armor system with the same basic rules. And Mr Rhexx just released a video announcing this and saying he's playtested this system over three campaigns, but.... I don't think it would actually do many of the things he is claiming it does. Now, I'd test it, but all the games I have that sort of control over ATM are with brand new players and I've got no space to try messing with the rules. So, I figured the next best thing was to talk about it here, because... I don't know. I feel like there is a good idea here, but that this fundamentally doesn't work as designed. Now, to be even more fair, I've not purchased his rule set, so maybe there are details missing from his explanation in the video, but here is the basics that I've got. All AC is 10+Dex mod. If a monster attacks you and rolls less than 10 + dex mod, they miss you. Putting on armor does not actually increase your AC, instead it gives you damage reduction. Now, I want to pause here for a second. I think Dungeon Coaches proposed rules were that if the attack hits between your 10+dex mod and the AC the Armor would give you, then it still hits and you get the damage reduction, but you take full damage if it is over the Armor Class of the Armor. Mr. Rhexx's seems to be that AC is always 10+Dex mod and that getting hit at all while wearing armor gives you the damage. However, the damage reduction is "minimum 1" Shields still increase AC as normal. Magical armor gives a +1 to AC and +1 to the damage reduction. So... it would work like this, and I want to focus on Rhexx's rules for right now, because they are just simpler. If a Rogue with a +4 Dex puts on Studded Leather armor, they have an AC of 14 and a damage reduction of 2 (12-10 = 2). If an attack would roll below a 14, they dodge. If it is over 14, they take the hit, but reduce the damage by 2. The Paladin on the other hand, with a Dex of 10 has an AC of 10, and if they put on Platemail and a shield, then their AC increases to 12, and they have a damage reduction of 8. Now, he claims this makes the Paladin "really feel like a tank" because they reduce the incoming damage so much, but they are getting hit constantly. And here is where I find my big initial problem with the base system. Let us say that these are mid-level adventurers. They are fighting an Owlbear, pretty standard. The Rogue still has an AC of 14, and with the Owlbear's +7 to hit, they are getting hit about 70% of the time, for nearly full damage. But, the Rogue could have only had +2 more AC, which would have dropped it to 60%. Meanwhile, the Paladin has an AC of 12, meaning that they are getting hit 80% of the time, and while they are reducing the damage by 8, the Owlbear averages 10 and 14 damage respectively, meaning that they are still taking 8 damage on average every turn. Meanwhile the rogue is not getting hit. So, to me, while you take very little damage, at low-levels where you don't have a lot of health, you are just going to get smashed while the rogue is going to be doing about the same, and dodging attacks. (Also of note, Shield of faith and similar spells are supposed to increase the DR, not AC) But, unless you start adding magical armor, this is it, these are the best armors. So what happens at CR 10 or so? Let's take a Behir, CR 11 and assume that the normal ASI progression has occured. The Rogue has maxed Dex, and the Paladin has focused on Cha, Con and Str. Rogue's AC is 15, with 2 DR. Paladin's AC is 12, with 8 DR A Behir has an attack mod of +10. Now, the rogue, again, is not too far off from where they were before. They are only down two AC, and they are taking about the same damage. But, the paladin? They are getting hit 95% of the time. They will never not be getting hit. And while they reduce the damage by 8, the Behir is dealing 22 and 17/17 damage per turn. That means that you will basically always be taking 14 and 26 or 40 points of damage. That doesn't feel like a tank to me. That feels like a dead character. Even if we cast shield of Faith that only brings it to 36 points of damage. But it gets worse. There are two other rules he mentioned, and they are devasting for this paladin. The first is that if an attack has advantage, say from being restrained because you where constricted by a Behir, then your DR is halved. The second is that if the attack rolls 10 pts higher than your AC, then your DR is halved. That means the Behir needs to only roll a 12 or higher, to get a total of 22, and the paladin is only reducing 4 or 5 damage from that attack. Which means that they are taking between 48 and 46 damage every turn. He's explained why he wanted a system like this, he's expressed a few frustrations. The limits on armor progression, caused by armor only having a single meaningful stat, the ability for even low to mid level characters to get ACs in the 20's which are nearly impossible for low CR creatures to hit. And worse if you have an AC stacking build like what a paladin or Artificer can do. I like the idea of adding DR to special armors, giving more of a range of options where you can buy armor that is better than the standard, or with differing abilities so it isn't just purely "which gives best AC" but this method just seems to nerf strength based builds into the ground. Especially since he proposes to do the same for the monsters, so that Behir would be easy to hit, but have a DR of 4 I think, which of course a Barbarian could cleave through with advantage, but a fighter? A fighter is just dealing less damage and getting hit more. Do people think I'm missing something here? I've seen a few places where this seems well-received, but it seems like it is just brutal to me. Linking the video, if people want the source: [MEDIA=youtube]E4BwzEmUpdQ[/MEDIA] [/QUOTE]
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