D&D 5E Discussing Worldbuilding: Why Don't The Mages Take Over The World?

OB1

Jedi Master
Matt Mercer's Exandria setting delves into this question somewhat directly, and the result is rich dynamic between the various power sources. You have in ancient history a powerful mageocricy that nearly destroyed the world due to their hubris, followed by a long dark age where much of that previous knowledge was lost.

In the present of the setting, the most powerful city in the world is a Theocracy that bans arcane magic in its city, and actively works to keep wizards especially in check. On the other side of the planet, a group of archmages run a CIA/NSA type shadow government under a traditional martial kingdom, pulling the strings and furthering their own goals, but the sense is they don't yet have the power or the numbers to try and take over directly, so they work to uncover the lost knowledge of the previous age, biding their time to attempt another take over. Another power source (a group of librarian monks) also work to keep the mages in check in that kingdom.

@Levistus's_Leviathan 's question is a great way to enrich a setting. By deciding exactly why mages haven't taken over a particular, it leads to an interesting world. And there are endless ways to answer it.
 

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Dausuul

Legend
Spellcasters normally can achieve powers much greater and more versatile than just being a swordsman. And some types of them are born with magic (sorcerers and certain races). People generally aren't born good swordsmen.

And this is a systemic topic. I'm not saying that if there's just a single mage in the setting that they're destined to rule everything. More that if mages do exist, are fairly common, and have more power than non-mages, then the chances of them using their magic to take power is practically inevitable in the long run unless there are large roadblocks built into the setting that prevent this.
If the mages work together -- if their loyalty is to "mages" above nation or family or religion -- then, sure, they rule the roost.

But if not, then the roadblock is other mages. Most people are more inclined to follow than lead, and that goes for mages too. For the leader, then, what matters is what followers you have and how well you lead them. The mage king standing alone loses to the mundane king with a hundred mage followers, just like the lone warrior loses to the charismatic civilian with a hundred swords at their back.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
I guess, after a fashion, I have answered this question? I didn't set out to do so, but an answer is there if people go looking.

A bit over two millennia ago, the Genie-Rajahs ruled the Tarrakhuna, while the (now-absent) "El'Adrin" ruled the forests to the south, and the jungles to the north were inhabited by non-civic tribal cultures. The Genie-Rajahs kept most mortals in the Tarrakhuna under their thumb, often as slaves, and ruled through their prodigious magical might. Then, a bunch of stuff happened--it's complicated and the history is partially lost--but everyone agrees that the genies abandoned the world en masse for Jinnistan, their new country in the elemental otherworld. Mortals--humans, orcs, dwarves, etc.--took over the cities the genies abandoned, and also built a few of their own, though almost all modern cities are repurposed Genie-Rajah cities. (Kafer-Naum, the religious capital of the Safiqi priesthood, is one of the few moderately-large cities built purely by mortals, with no prior genie presence.)

Around the same time as the genie exodus to Jinnistan, the El'Adrin civilization completely disappeared, leaving behind only a tiny remnant who (somehow) became the elves. The original El'Adrin were...different, somehow, and that difference depended on the nature of magic and the world as it existed at the time. Something--some major event--changed the world and altered magic so much, it would have meant the end of the El'Adrin and their society. So they figured out some way to project their entire civilization, wholesale, into a pocket dimension where they could wait until the world became compatible with their society again. Exactly why the world changed, and what needs to be done to fix it, remain unknown at this time. Their society was effectively a magocracy, but that wasn't really a big deal because all El'Adrin could practice magic, even small children could use at least basic magic, so "magocratic" and "democratic" blur together in this context. Every adult El'Adrin was at least a middling "wizard." (This last bit, the universality of magic in their culture, is technically not yet known to my players, but they'll learn it sooner or later; they've collected some legitimate El'Adrin remains recently due to Timey-Wimey Shenanigans.)

Mortals who lived in the Tarrakhuna but not under the rule of the Genie-Rajahs were the Nomad Tribes, some of which still exist today (this is why the Nomads and the City-Folk are both considered "civilized"--they are one stock, just some of them chose to rule the abandoned cities while others chose to stay in the arid wilds.) Prior to the genie exodus, the Kahina, druids and shaman, were the primary magical force because genie magic cannot be directly taught (it's innate...sort of) and no genie wanted powerful archmage mortal servants anyway for fear they could become a threat. So the Kahina were the only real magical power bloc, and they were bound by ancient traditions and the desires of the spirit world, which does not like being used and abused and will fight back.

A century or two after the genie exodus, the Safiqi priesthood sprang up, and slowly took over as the dominant religious system, providing a second religious mitigating force against uber-powerful arcane casters. However, the Safiqi have their own share of issues, and are vigilant against those who would try to exploit priestly power for personal gain in contravention of their doctrine, ascribed to the One, the Great Architect, the creator of all things. As a result, they have an internal police force which goes through special training and rituals to ensure their loyalty, which is given rather plenary power to hunt down heretics (which means people who were part of the faith but have twisted it to evil, not "nonbelievers" like most people think...) and other abusive/dangerous forces. This provides a further layer of protection against autocratic mages trying to conquer everything.

Further, proper, actual arcane magic was only very, very slowly developed, over the course of roughly five hundred years (putting its full proper start about 1300 years before present) because experimenting with it is REALLY DANGEROUS. We're talking "if you randomly experiment with making spells, you may not just blow yourself up, you may blow up your whole house or, in extreme cases, your entire city block." This has made the Waziri mage order--essentially the Tarrakhuna wizarding equivalent of the American Medical Association--extremely conservative about how they develop their arts, and extremely secretive, jealously and zealously guarding their work until it can be published in an official capacity. So, more or less, they get an extreme level of deep and abiding caution beaten into them by their training, because the incautious people tend to blow themselves up, and on top of that the natural patterns of academia and "publish or perish" culture push them toward certain behavioral patterns which undercut their ability to simply amass vast amounts of magical knowledge single-handedly.

Finally...the reigning monarchs of the various city-states aren't stupid. They wouldn't just sit around idly while upstart Waziri mages begin consolidating incredible power. Waziri are often considered very suspect if they start having major political aspirations, but oftentimes that simply results in some kind of arranged marriage with a secondary or tertiary child of some other city-state's monarch, preferably in Jinnistan where they can be even further removed from the mortal world. So you have both military control and political acumen existing in the hands of non-mages, and vested interest in keeping it there from both the nobility/aristocracy and the merchant/middle class. Outright mind control magic, as well as all forms of necromancy except proper resurrection of dead individuals, is expressly forbidden (for the same reason slavery is--slavery was something the genies did to mortals, it's a horrific crime to do it and has been for as long as mortals have ruled the Tarrakhuna.) Since it is generally pretty easy for Kahina or Safiqi to detect when someone is under true mind control, that avenue of gaining power very quickly is pretty well snuffed out, and most of the other conventional ones require rallying a large number of skeptical fellow-wizards against entrenched power structures that emphatically do not want to become dis-entrenched.

Thus, we end up with the mostly-stable entente we have in the present day. The Safiqi have hardliners who would like to forbid all non-Safiqi magic, but the allure of Waziri-made items (which Safiqi can't replace) and the need for Kahina anti-spirit magic (Safiqi can banish spiritual entities that don't belong in our world, but cannot permanently deal with the spirits of the unquiet dead, as they are native; only Kahina can soothe them properly) means the hardline Safiqi never stay in power for even a full generation. The Waziri absolutely have hella ambitious folks in their ranks, and one faction thereof recently failed at a coup attempt, but a lot of them really are just bookish academics who wouldn't know what to do with proper political power and sure as hell don't want it because it would mess up their research schedule. Some traditionalist Kahina pine for the days when they were the top dogs, revered and feared by anyone not oppressed by the Genie-Rajahs, but the majority of Kahina are content to just go with the flow, adapting to the world that is and fulfilling the needs of the day.

And of course the Genie-Rajahs have become the modern Jinnistani, just as political and backstabbing as they always were. It's in their interest to keep the mortal world stable and wealthy (who else would buy their fantastically expensive products?) but not too powerful magically. So they interfere when it suits them to keep things from getting "out of hand," in other words, to keep things from no longer favoring their position anymore. Though whether that's stable is a matter of fierce debate....
 
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beancounter

(I/Me/Mine)
Well, it's because of alignment. (if people still use it)

Simply put, the good mages provide a counter balance to the evil mages - so neither can take over the world.
 
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TheSword

Legend
Why would powerful mages care what common folk do? Some might be interested in it, but there will be plenty that aren’t.

Do you have any idea how much effort it takes to actually ‘rule’ people. Administrative control isn’t exercised by a single person it’s takes hundred if not thousands exercising authority.

Mages would be most vulnerable to their own minions. Who know their secrets, weaknesses and are most likely to want to take their place.

It seems like a fools errand to me, and wizards are smart.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Sure, but the goal is to make an interesting environnement to let the players characters evolve. It may look logic to have casters overrule the world, but would it makes a more interesting place to play?
Maybe that isn't the goal. The world doesn't have to exist just to serve the PCs (in fact, I prefer that it doesn't). If the rules you're using lead to mages taking over the world, then they should. If the PCs then want to overturn the status quo, that's up to them.

It depends on whether or not your setting is supposed to feel like a real place, or a backdrop for "the continuing adventures of Hero-Woman and Justice Boy".
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
While a wizard is great at artillery, they're glass cannons. Armies in the middle ages could easily have tens of thousands of soldiers. That wizard is going to run out of fireballs real quick. Everyone needs to sleep now and then as well.

Besides, political power is rarely held by those that actually do the fighting, capabilities in combat are not that important to being a ruler.
There are plenty of ways for a mage to sieze power magically that have nothing to do with combat.
 


DarkCrisis

Reeks of Jedi
See: (Classic) Dragonlance

Arcane magic is highly regulated as in you must pass a potentially lethal test to learn 3rd level spells and up.



Used to be Mages where considered rare. Your PC just happened to be on of the very few. Now it's all Magic College in every village and every 4th person is a Mage. Which would be SCARY.

Mages should be respected AND feared. Imagine a shop owner never really sure if he cut that guy a good price due to charm magic. Or the King makes an odd decision... that really him or someone shape changed...?

Magic in a world where anyone could study it or come about naturally would be highly regulated and the plebs would be very afraid. Most mages would keep their skills on the down low.

By the by, the first official D&D movie was set in a world run by Mages.
 
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Maybe that isn't the goal. The world doesn't have to exist just to serve the PCs (in fact, I prefer that it doesn't). If the rules you're using lead to mages taking over the world, then they should. If the PCs then want to overturn the status quo, that's up to them.

It depends on whether or not your setting is supposed to feel like a real place, or a backdrop for "the continuing adventures of Hero-Woman and Justice Boy".
Theory crafting and meta world building can be fun.
But usually no one publish or complaint about setting not meant to be played into.
 

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