Disintegrate v. Iron Door

[Gizzard]

An unattended object gets no saving throw, so I'd expect that an Iron Door Disintegrated by a 12th level caster would take 24d6 of damage (which may or may not actually destroy it.) But the second paragraph of Disintegrate says "When used against an object, the ray simply disintegrates as much as one 10- foot cube of nonliving matter"

Some read that as setting an upper limit (ie, you cannot destroy a 20x20 feather pillow with a single Disintegrate) while others read that as automatically destroying unattended objects less than 10x10 (ie, you can destroy an 9x9 Adamantine cube).

Which is true?

 

[the Jester]

Both.

An unattended block of stone 10' on a side will be utterly destroyed. An unattended block of stone 20' on a side will have a 10' cube disintegrated out of it.

 

[Ottergame]

I assume the "as much as" comment is only included to say items with less than that volume don't let the effect carry on to objects behind it.

 

[hong]

If you cast disintegrate at the iron door, it disintegrates the iron door (or at least a 10' cube of it). Hit points don't come into the equation. You only use the 2d6-per-caster-level thing when casting the spell at creatures.

Confusingly, "creatures" includes animated objects, so if someone cast animate object on the iron door and then you tried to disintegrate it, you would have to roll damage.

 

[Gizzard]

You only use the 2d6-per-caster-level thing when casting the spell at creatures.

The third paragraph of Disintegrate says that "A creature or object that makes a successful Fortitude save is partially affected, taking only 5d6 points of damage. If this damage reduces the creature or object to 0 or fewer hit points, it is entirely disintegrated."

Some people in my group have interpreted the last sentence to apply only to attended objects, which *do* get a saving throw. Others argued that it's weird to let attended objects use their HPs (in some cases?) and not let unattended objects do the same. Ie, an unattended object gets no save, but then it takes 24d6 of damage which may or may not destroy it; as in the case of the 9x9 Adamantine cube.

The more I read this spell description, the more confused I get!

-edit-
So does an attended object that fails its save take 24d6 or is it automatically Disintegrated?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Some people in my group have interpreted the last sentence to apply only to attended objects, which *do* get a saving throw. Others argued that it's weird to let attended objects use their HPs (in some cases?) and not let unattended objects do the same. Ie, an unattended object gets no save, but then it takes 24d6 of damage which may or may not destroy it; as in the case of the 9x9 Adamantine cube.

Weird as it may be, I think the idea is unattended nonmagical objects are automatically toast -- HPs and saves are totally irrelavent, only volume matters.

I would allow attended magic items the benefit of their hit points, but I would not bother for non-magical items, but that is just a 1eism that lingers with me. In general I would not allow a creature to attend a door or wall, although I could think of exotic counterexamples, e.g. I would allow an earth elemental to attend a stone wall.

 

[hong]

So does an attended object that fails its save take 24d6 or is it automatically Disintegrated?

An unattended object that makes its save takes 5d6 points of damage. If this is enough to take it to 0 hp, it's disintegrated.

An unattended object that fails its save is disintegrated (10' cube worth).

Furthermore:
- An attended object gets the benefit of its user's saves.
- An unattended, nonmagical object generally gets no save, and is considered to fail any saves required.

 

[Gizzard]

but that is just a 1eism that lingers with me.

Maybe that's why I am having such a hard time with this too. Where is my table of item saving throws? I miss that.

So here's the summary of this thread as I understand it:

1) unattended item: disintegrated
2) attended item that fails save: disintegrated
3) attended item that makes its save but has less than 24d6 HPs: disintigrated
4) attended item that makes its save and has more than 24d6 HPs: survives! (but damaged)

 

[GodPhoenix]

3) attended item that makes its save but has less than 24d6 HPs: disintigrated
4) attended item that makes its save and has more than 24d6 HPs: survives! (but damaged)

Yup to all 4 I think...but

...does an items hardness apply to damage from a disintegrate spell? I would think so, but I don't know if there's something hinkey about disintegrate and hardness.

 

[hong]

1) unattended item: disintegrated
2) attended item that fails save: disintegrated
3) attended item that makes its save but has less than 24d6 HPs: disintigrated
4) attended item that makes its save and has more than 24d6 HPs: survives! (but damaged)

1) unattended object that fails its save: disintegrated
2) unattended object that makes its save: 5d6 damage
3) attended object that fails its save: disintegrated
4) attended object that makes its save: 5d6 damage

There is no difference between an unattended and an attended object in terms of the effects of the spell. The only difference is in when/if the object actually gets a save to mitigate the effect.