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Disney Star Wars Is It Actually That Bad?
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<blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 8713357" data-attributes="member: 6799660"><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>Quoted for the reference to 'the magic.'</em></span></p><p>So, I have a premise, and starts with a shots-fired, but bear with me at least a few paragraphs before writing it off. Anyways, here it is: <em><u>there was never any magic in Star Wars to begin with</u></em>. Not Star Wars the IP, nor the setting, the iconic characters, the tropes or concepts explored, etc. Instead, there were magic moments, plus the magic that the fandom imputed into the series with their adoration, and then individual bits and pieces that worked in the IP not because it was in the IP, but because it was good in and of itself.</p><p></p><p><em>Star Wars</em> (the original film, now <em>A New Hope</em>) came out and was magic. It was a combination of westerns, samurai movies, WWII mission films, and Flash Gordon/Buck Rogers-style space fantasy films which previously were usually treated like fluff films/Saturday matinee/'kids stuff' and it somehow <em>worked</em>. <em>Well</em>. Amazingly well. It is hard to exaggerate how much it changed things. It (and <em>Jaws</em>) instigated the concept of the blockbuster movie. It normalized adults openingly being fans of 'kid stuff' media, in a way that boosted/allowed things like high-budget comic book movies and star trek revivals and D&D to flourish. If <em>Star Wars</em> had been one and done, this would still have been magic. </p><p></p><p>Then <em>Empire Strikes Back</em> came out and it was a sequel (and, based on the ending, clearly an establishment of a franchise), and yet it was <em>good</em>. I mean, I'm a fan of <em>the Thin Man</em> and <em>James Bond*</em> and the <em>Planet of the Apes</em> series and some other movies which had already been franchises, but in general, having more than one movie in a setting was not a recipe additive growth. This too, was game changing. I can see why people took these two movies, plotted a trajectory, and started measuring which parts of the IP lived up to/failed to meet this plotline**.</p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">*And the best of those had happened by 1977</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">**Honestly none, because that was the second best thing in the series and then the best, so by nature the next thing should have been even better, and nothing thus far has surpassed ESB, IMO. </span></p><p></p><p>However, even by then, there was a huge amount in the properties that was not good. The holiday special holds a special place in peoples' minds as notoriously bad, but then there were the novelizations which were not bad, but pretty much just 'fine.' Comic books set in the universe (including a rabbit-species buddy of Han's, since exactly what kind of aliens existed in this universe outside the cantina hadn't yet been finalized). </p><p></p><p>And I think, with just this*, we can see the issue. The IP is good when someone does something good <em>with it --</em> good script, good premise, good hook. The universe (with indistinct ominous bad guy empire and plucky rebels) isn't inherently magical worldbuilding**. The main characters we all have come to know and love -- when divorced from the actors who portrayed them (and the cast clearly had some amazing chemistry together ) -- are relatively standard/unremarkable (or standard-subversive, in cases like 'not so in-distress princess') tropish figures. The force/Jedi are an interesting idea, but one that works best when vague and seems to have diminished each time the exact boundaries have been explored. Nothing about the IP makes it inherently a good thing that a new story is set in it. It is only when someone already has a good story to tell that putting it into the setting has ended up being a success. </p><p><em><span style="font-size: 9px">*I could go on and map out the stuff in the Lucas era and the good and bad EU writing, and then proceed into Disney, but I think the point can be made just here.</span></em></p><p><em><span style="font-size: 9px">**given how many divergent opinions there are on how much shades of grey the rebels have or how bad the empire really would be without the Emperor, it's safe to say even the audience doesn't all agree on exactly how this world should be built</span></em></p><p></p><p>And that's why the series has been so hit-and-miss (both in the Lucas era, and with Disney). The good stuff (<em>Rogue One, Mandalorian</em>) were good ideas, well written, outside of them being in the SW universe. <em>The Mandalorian</em> and <em>Book of Boba Fett</em> are a great example of this principle in action. Boba Fett the character is coded as awesome, and they took the character, figured out what story to tell with the character to make the character actually be awesome, and proceeded to tell that tale --- with a character named the Mandalorian (who is everything people wanted out of Boba Fett when he was introduced -- mysterious, bad ass, a pragmatist combatant -- just without the canonical history of the character) instead of Boba Fett. They then took the character of Boba Fett and tried to pull something awesome out of the existing canon (explaining what happened after the sarlacc, dealing with existing known relationships, figuring out what BF would do after RotJ) and it just doesn't work wonderfully. Probably mostly because the existing canon wasn't set up to facilitate something particularly great for BF <em>after </em>he captures Han (which is where he was last cool), so starting fresh with 'a Boba Fett-like character, minus specific backstory' works better.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is definitely the caveat/exception to my point about there being good and bad in both eras. This was just mind-blowing in the WTF-ism. Why would you do this to the main trunk of the story tree you were building a bunch of branches and developing a whole halo of side projects around?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Willie the Duck, post: 8713357, member: 6799660"] [SIZE=1][I]Quoted for the reference to 'the magic.'[/I][/SIZE] So, I have a premise, and starts with a shots-fired, but bear with me at least a few paragraphs before writing it off. Anyways, here it is: [I][U]there was never any magic in Star Wars to begin with[/U][/I]. Not Star Wars the IP, nor the setting, the iconic characters, the tropes or concepts explored, etc. Instead, there were magic moments, plus the magic that the fandom imputed into the series with their adoration, and then individual bits and pieces that worked in the IP not because it was in the IP, but because it was good in and of itself. [I]Star Wars[/I] (the original film, now [I]A New Hope[/I]) came out and was magic. It was a combination of westerns, samurai movies, WWII mission films, and Flash Gordon/Buck Rogers-style space fantasy films which previously were usually treated like fluff films/Saturday matinee/'kids stuff' and it somehow [I]worked[/I]. [I]Well[/I]. Amazingly well. It is hard to exaggerate how much it changed things. It (and [I]Jaws[/I]) instigated the concept of the blockbuster movie. It normalized adults openingly being fans of 'kid stuff' media, in a way that boosted/allowed things like high-budget comic book movies and star trek revivals and D&D to flourish. If [I]Star Wars[/I] had been one and done, this would still have been magic. Then [I]Empire Strikes Back[/I] came out and it was a sequel (and, based on the ending, clearly an establishment of a franchise), and yet it was [I]good[/I]. I mean, I'm a fan of [I]the Thin Man[/I] and [I]James Bond*[/I] and the [I]Planet of the Apes[/I] series and some other movies which had already been franchises, but in general, having more than one movie in a setting was not a recipe additive growth. This too, was game changing. I can see why people took these two movies, plotted a trajectory, and started measuring which parts of the IP lived up to/failed to meet this plotline**. [SIZE=1]*And the best of those had happened by 1977 **Honestly none, because that was the second best thing in the series and then the best, so by nature the next thing should have been even better, and nothing thus far has surpassed ESB, IMO. [/SIZE] However, even by then, there was a huge amount in the properties that was not good. The holiday special holds a special place in peoples' minds as notoriously bad, but then there were the novelizations which were not bad, but pretty much just 'fine.' Comic books set in the universe (including a rabbit-species buddy of Han's, since exactly what kind of aliens existed in this universe outside the cantina hadn't yet been finalized). And I think, with just this*, we can see the issue. The IP is good when someone does something good [I]with it --[/I] good script, good premise, good hook. The universe (with indistinct ominous bad guy empire and plucky rebels) isn't inherently magical worldbuilding**. The main characters we all have come to know and love -- when divorced from the actors who portrayed them (and the cast clearly had some amazing chemistry together ) -- are relatively standard/unremarkable (or standard-subversive, in cases like 'not so in-distress princess') tropish figures. The force/Jedi are an interesting idea, but one that works best when vague and seems to have diminished each time the exact boundaries have been explored. Nothing about the IP makes it inherently a good thing that a new story is set in it. It is only when someone already has a good story to tell that putting it into the setting has ended up being a success. [I][SIZE=1]*I could go on and map out the stuff in the Lucas era and the good and bad EU writing, and then proceed into Disney, but I think the point can be made just here. **given how many divergent opinions there are on how much shades of grey the rebels have or how bad the empire really would be without the Emperor, it's safe to say even the audience doesn't all agree on exactly how this world should be built[/SIZE][/I] And that's why the series has been so hit-and-miss (both in the Lucas era, and with Disney). The good stuff ([I]Rogue One, Mandalorian[/I]) were good ideas, well written, outside of them being in the SW universe. [I]The Mandalorian[/I] and [I]Book of Boba Fett[/I] are a great example of this principle in action. Boba Fett the character is coded as awesome, and they took the character, figured out what story to tell with the character to make the character actually be awesome, and proceeded to tell that tale --- with a character named the Mandalorian (who is everything people wanted out of Boba Fett when he was introduced -- mysterious, bad ass, a pragmatist combatant -- just without the canonical history of the character) instead of Boba Fett. They then took the character of Boba Fett and tried to pull something awesome out of the existing canon (explaining what happened after the sarlacc, dealing with existing known relationships, figuring out what BF would do after RotJ) and it just doesn't work wonderfully. Probably mostly because the existing canon wasn't set up to facilitate something particularly great for BF [I]after [/I]he captures Han (which is where he was last cool), so starting fresh with 'a Boba Fett-like character, minus specific backstory' works better. This is definitely the caveat/exception to my point about there being good and bad in both eras. This was just mind-blowing in the WTF-ism. Why would you do this to the main trunk of the story tree you were building a bunch of branches and developing a whole halo of side projects around? [/QUOTE]
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