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Disney Star Wars Is It Actually That Bad?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 8713926" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>Yet they did nothing with it. Nothing! It is rather baffling.</p><p></p><p>Anyhow, not to pick on you, Gradine, but your rant above sort of illustrates a problem with today's online discourse. What I think ends up happening is the most extreme, vitriolic voices get magnified, and people react against that, as if it fully representative of anything that disagrees with one's view, or one's side (and everything is about sides, tribes, etc). Just to be clear: I'm not saying that you are vitriolic, but responding to vitriol.</p><p></p><p>So let's take the rather controversial Nerdrotic. His brand is hyperbole and vitriol. I actually agree with <em>some</em> of his criticisms of Star Wars and LotR, but with about 5% of the vitriol and hyperbole. Frankly, I just don't care as much, nor am I nearly as offended by the "sacred lore" being changed.</p><p></p><p>But do I agree with the <em>gist </em>of <em>some</em> of his criticisms? Yes. The problem, then, is when people who don't like Nerdrotic assume my view (or others who agree with some of what he says, or say somewhat similar things) is the same as his and lump us into the same category - a category that, to begin with, already makes assumptions about Nerdrotic (I am not here to defend him, though I think some of the accusations against him are as hyperbolic as his rantings).</p><p></p><p>So everyone gets pushed into two camps, two extremes which make caricatures out of each other and thus don't really converse. There's no dialogue.</p><p></p><p>So when I hear your view on <em>The Last Jedi, </em>I find it reasonable and it even makes me want to view it with fresh eyes. I don't feel the same way, though I don't think it was a terrible film and would rank it ahead of <em>Rise of Skywalker </em>and the first two prequels, and probably the inoffensive but forgettable <em>Solo. </em>I actually liked it better on the second viewing, which is always a good sign. So for me, it is middle of the pack among Star Wars films.</p><p></p><p>Did I like the portrayal of Luke? Not really. But it is less about the things you say, or him drinking blue milk, and more about his whole story arc and what it did to the feeling at the end of <em>Return of the Jedi. </em>So it is a problem with the entire Disney trilogy: It basically said, "You know all that? Well, it didn't last - and things got worse, and all the hope is gone."</p><p></p><p>Now having a film trilogy requires bad stuff happening. But I think they could have done it in a way that didn't diminish Luke's triumph, or turn Han Solo into a shadow of himself and a sacrificial lamb for Kylo Ren's story arc. I have some ideas, but not only is it a moot point, but I don't want to go on too long. But the point is, I think it is valid to feel like something was taken away from us - that the original trilogy was diminished in the process.</p><p></p><p>Secondly and related to the above, what happened to a general attitude of "different strokes for different folks?" It is possible for two people to have very different responses to <em>The Last Jedi </em>or anything, and not accuse the other of being a cry baby or a fanboy, etc etc. This is not to say that there aren't folks who are over-the-top in their hyperbole or fanboyism, but that the collective jumps too quickly into these hyper partisan modes where everyone is on one side or the other of every issue.</p><p></p><p>Another complaint I have is epitomized by Oscar Isaac. He's one of my favorite actors to have emerged in the last couple decades, yet his character was basically forgettable. Without watching them again and analyzing, I'm not entirely sure why. I think it is part of the nature of the Disney trilogy in general and how I imagine the protagonists were conceived. They probably told Daisy Ridley: "You're basically the female Luke, but without any faults." And they probably told Oscar Isaac, "You're sort of like Han Solo, but without any character or edginess, so basically Bland Solo." I don't know what they told John Boyega, maybe "You're basically a cipher, and we're not really sure what we want to do with you, but we'll figure it out as we go along." Instead of saying, "Let's create entirely new characters that grow out of your own personality. In fact, help us figure out who these characters are - this is a co-creative process."</p><p></p><p>All three were pretty good, but I can't help but feel they could have been so much better.</p><p></p><p>In a way, it is understandable, because it would have been really hard to make a trilogy that would please the vast majority of people. They oscillated between fan service and trying to do something different, and ended up doing neither all that well, except in moments.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 8713926, member: 59082"] Yet they did nothing with it. Nothing! It is rather baffling. Anyhow, not to pick on you, Gradine, but your rant above sort of illustrates a problem with today's online discourse. What I think ends up happening is the most extreme, vitriolic voices get magnified, and people react against that, as if it fully representative of anything that disagrees with one's view, or one's side (and everything is about sides, tribes, etc). Just to be clear: I'm not saying that you are vitriolic, but responding to vitriol. So let's take the rather controversial Nerdrotic. His brand is hyperbole and vitriol. I actually agree with [I]some[/I] of his criticisms of Star Wars and LotR, but with about 5% of the vitriol and hyperbole. Frankly, I just don't care as much, nor am I nearly as offended by the "sacred lore" being changed. But do I agree with the [I]gist [/I]of [I]some[/I] of his criticisms? Yes. The problem, then, is when people who don't like Nerdrotic assume my view (or others who agree with some of what he says, or say somewhat similar things) is the same as his and lump us into the same category - a category that, to begin with, already makes assumptions about Nerdrotic (I am not here to defend him, though I think some of the accusations against him are as hyperbolic as his rantings). So everyone gets pushed into two camps, two extremes which make caricatures out of each other and thus don't really converse. There's no dialogue. So when I hear your view on [I]The Last Jedi, [/I]I find it reasonable and it even makes me want to view it with fresh eyes. I don't feel the same way, though I don't think it was a terrible film and would rank it ahead of [I]Rise of Skywalker [/I]and the first two prequels, and probably the inoffensive but forgettable [I]Solo. [/I]I actually liked it better on the second viewing, which is always a good sign. So for me, it is middle of the pack among Star Wars films. Did I like the portrayal of Luke? Not really. But it is less about the things you say, or him drinking blue milk, and more about his whole story arc and what it did to the feeling at the end of [I]Return of the Jedi. [/I]So it is a problem with the entire Disney trilogy: It basically said, "You know all that? Well, it didn't last - and things got worse, and all the hope is gone." Now having a film trilogy requires bad stuff happening. But I think they could have done it in a way that didn't diminish Luke's triumph, or turn Han Solo into a shadow of himself and a sacrificial lamb for Kylo Ren's story arc. I have some ideas, but not only is it a moot point, but I don't want to go on too long. But the point is, I think it is valid to feel like something was taken away from us - that the original trilogy was diminished in the process. Secondly and related to the above, what happened to a general attitude of "different strokes for different folks?" It is possible for two people to have very different responses to [I]The Last Jedi [/I]or anything, and not accuse the other of being a cry baby or a fanboy, etc etc. This is not to say that there aren't folks who are over-the-top in their hyperbole or fanboyism, but that the collective jumps too quickly into these hyper partisan modes where everyone is on one side or the other of every issue. Another complaint I have is epitomized by Oscar Isaac. He's one of my favorite actors to have emerged in the last couple decades, yet his character was basically forgettable. Without watching them again and analyzing, I'm not entirely sure why. I think it is part of the nature of the Disney trilogy in general and how I imagine the protagonists were conceived. They probably told Daisy Ridley: "You're basically the female Luke, but without any faults." And they probably told Oscar Isaac, "You're sort of like Han Solo, but without any character or edginess, so basically Bland Solo." I don't know what they told John Boyega, maybe "You're basically a cipher, and we're not really sure what we want to do with you, but we'll figure it out as we go along." Instead of saying, "Let's create entirely new characters that grow out of your own personality. In fact, help us figure out who these characters are - this is a co-creative process." All three were pretty good, but I can't help but feel they could have been so much better. In a way, it is understandable, because it would have been really hard to make a trilogy that would please the vast majority of people. They oscillated between fan service and trying to do something different, and ended up doing neither all that well, except in moments. [/QUOTE]
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