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Disney Star Wars Is It Actually That Bad?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 8717690" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I could put up with the fact that Kylo Ren is a Darth Vader fanboy or that Kylo Ren has unexplained skills in his background. </p><p></p><p>What I couldn't put up with is that nothing internal to the movies really ever explains any of Kylo Ren's motivations. We're left with the impression that he's just insane. He is literally a villain who seems to be evil for its own sake. He just snarls and chews up the scenery because that's what villains do. We're never give enough to go on with his character. And I want to compare how Kylo Ren is always a mystery to the way Vader's actions are understable like 99% of the time. With the sole exception of his weakly done 'fall' scene where one moment he's like "we got to get rid of a Sith Lord" and the next moment he's like, "screw the Jedi", the audience is always given enough internally to the movies to understand why he's doing what he's doing. When we are first introduced to Vader, he's not that complicated. He's a loyal cog in the Evil Empire, one of its top lieutenants, but clearly a respected soldier and a servant of the mysterious Emperor in the background. We can understand Vader's apparent motivations by his relationship to other members of the Imperial military, and he fits snugly into the archetype of "The Black Knight". In fact, just in case you might miss it, he's literally given a black suit of armor and and a fearsome samurai helmet. And if that wasn't enough, we get little bits of exposition like, "He was a pupil of mine before he turned to evil." Our understanding of Vader as an audience starts solid and stays solid even as unexpected aspects of his character are revealed - including literally the greatest twist reveal in cinematic history.</p><p></p><p>But Kylo Ren never is anything but a mystery and the more we learn the more inexplicable he gets. That's not clever. That's not deep writing. If there puzzle here, then a good writer knows what the answer to that puzzle is. You see, Lucas may or may not have not worked out all his plot points ahead of time, but it didn't matter because his characterization was solid anyway. Kylo Ren on the other hand has none of his plot points worked out ahead of time, but because his character is acting mysteriously and contrary to logic and reason there better be an answer - and there just isn't. Vader has motives. Palpatine has motives. Kylo Ren seems to have no more motives than a 3 year old throwing a temper tantrum and never outgrows that and the audience is never given an explanation. What does he want other than to be a villain and why does he want to be a villain? No answers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 8717690, member: 4937"] I could put up with the fact that Kylo Ren is a Darth Vader fanboy or that Kylo Ren has unexplained skills in his background. What I couldn't put up with is that nothing internal to the movies really ever explains any of Kylo Ren's motivations. We're left with the impression that he's just insane. He is literally a villain who seems to be evil for its own sake. He just snarls and chews up the scenery because that's what villains do. We're never give enough to go on with his character. And I want to compare how Kylo Ren is always a mystery to the way Vader's actions are understable like 99% of the time. With the sole exception of his weakly done 'fall' scene where one moment he's like "we got to get rid of a Sith Lord" and the next moment he's like, "screw the Jedi", the audience is always given enough internally to the movies to understand why he's doing what he's doing. When we are first introduced to Vader, he's not that complicated. He's a loyal cog in the Evil Empire, one of its top lieutenants, but clearly a respected soldier and a servant of the mysterious Emperor in the background. We can understand Vader's apparent motivations by his relationship to other members of the Imperial military, and he fits snugly into the archetype of "The Black Knight". In fact, just in case you might miss it, he's literally given a black suit of armor and and a fearsome samurai helmet. And if that wasn't enough, we get little bits of exposition like, "He was a pupil of mine before he turned to evil." Our understanding of Vader as an audience starts solid and stays solid even as unexpected aspects of his character are revealed - including literally the greatest twist reveal in cinematic history. But Kylo Ren never is anything but a mystery and the more we learn the more inexplicable he gets. That's not clever. That's not deep writing. If there puzzle here, then a good writer knows what the answer to that puzzle is. You see, Lucas may or may not have not worked out all his plot points ahead of time, but it didn't matter because his characterization was solid anyway. Kylo Ren on the other hand has none of his plot points worked out ahead of time, but because his character is acting mysteriously and contrary to logic and reason there better be an answer - and there just isn't. Vader has motives. Palpatine has motives. Kylo Ren seems to have no more motives than a 3 year old throwing a temper tantrum and never outgrows that and the audience is never given an explanation. What does he want other than to be a villain and why does he want to be a villain? No answers. [/QUOTE]
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