Displacement vs Targeted Spells

[Pax]

The missiles aimed at a creature would work, the missiles aimed at non-creatures would fizzle.

If you have three missiles, and you aim two at an orc and one at a door, the one at the door isn't going to work. Magic Missiles can't target objects.

I don't see why figments should be any different.

-Hyp.

They aren't.

The missile is used up on the figment -- and the figment goes away, because it's been hit.

So if you fire off three missiles at a wizard, who has a MI up with 5 figments and himself, each missile randomly targets ... if a figment is targetted by a missile, the figment will go *poof* when hit (mind, since MM is an instantaneous spell, the same figment COULD get whacked by all three missiles).

I seem to recall that MI specifically shuffles the images about, so that individually targettign any one of them is -not- possible. Could be wrong, but ... that'd make the same sort of random-target-determination valid for MM, as it is for a melee attack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

They aren't.

The missile is used up on the figment -- and the figment goes away, because it's been hit.

My contention is that it's not hit in the first place. I don't like the Sage's suggestion that a spell that targets creatures can target an illusion of a creature. It can lead to weirdness.

If I cast Magic Missile at a statue, the spell fails, by the rules of targetting - like casting Charm Person on a manticore. No missiles are fired.

If I cast Magic Missile at a stone golem - even if he's standing really still and pretending to be a statue - the spell works. (It's not going to hurt the golem, but the missiles will fire and hit the target.)

If I cast Magic Missile at a statue that I think is a stone golem, too bad, the spell fails.

Now a wizard casts a Silent Image of a statue. Thinking he's summoned a golem, I cast Magic Missile. But it's an illusion of an object, not a creature. Spell fails.

Then the wizard makes the statue move. Is it now an illusion of a creature? Will Magic Missile work now?

I'm perfectly content to treat figments as not-creatures. Shadow illusions are different.

-Hyp.

 

[Numion]

I've always allowed Magic Missiles to destroy Mirror Images they happen to hit... MI is IMO difficult enough spell to adjudicate and strong a spell, so I usually rule against it when in doubt.

 

[IceBear]

Plus, I think that in any D&D novel I've ever read they've allowed magic missle to take out the images

IceBear

 

[Pax]

My contention is that it's not hit in the first place. I don't like the Sage's suggestion that a spell that targets creatures can target an illusion of a creature. It can lead to weirdness.

Ah, but IIRC (IDHMBWM), you cannot seperately target any one illusory image in a MI spell. IOW, you target "that wizard over there", and each missile has a chance of hitting the wizxard, or one of his however-many MI decoys.

Again, IIRC: the images and the wizard are constantly shuffling about, amongst themselves. You could simply view the MM hitting an MI figment, as the figment "shuffling" in front of the MM, just in time to intercept it -- and being "popped" out of existance in the process, while the MM fizzles because it hit a non-creature object mid-flight.

...

OTOH, just because MM will "fail" when targetting a noncreature (a statue, for example), does not have to mean no missiles are fired. MM is powerful enough already, for a first level spell. We don't need to add "unerring creature detector" to it's applications.

You see a statue, it MIGHT be a golem. Cast MM at it; the missiles streak out, and hit the statue.

Did it flinch? No? Would a golem have flinched? No?

Then you still have no idea if it's a statue, or a golem.

You see a dragon pop up out of nowhere; knowing that an evil lich-illusionist makes his lair nearby, you suspect the dragon is, in fact, only an illusion. You cast MM at it. The missiles appear, streak out, and hit the dragon; it grunts in pain, looks at you, and says in clear draconic "NOW you've irritated me, little wizard!"

Is it live, or is it Memorex? Simply put -- you don't know, and the mere act of casting MM shouldn't tell you if it's really a creature, or a big, very-well-made and convincing puppet, or a high-level illusion spell. IF it's a puppet, the puppeteer is very talented (noting the MMs on the way in, and miming a reaction). If it's an illusion, ditto -- the controlling spellcaster simply adds the reaction into the illusion. If it's real, then the dragon DID grunt in pain and IS angry at your wizard.

MM simply would not -- and IMO absolutely SHOULD not -- tell you which of the three (or somehting else entirely) is the true situation.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ah, but IIRC (IDHMBWM), you cannot seperately target any one illusory image in a MI spell. IOW, you target "that wizard over there", and each missile has a chance of hitting the wizxard, or one of his however-many MI decoys.

No, I disagree... the spell description says "enemies attempting to attack you must select". (It goes on to suggest that generally you'd use a random roll, but I'd suggest if someone wanted to pick a particular image, there's no reason to stop them.)

Remember, those eight images could conceivably ends up strung out over 40 feet.

Again, IIRC: the images and the wizard are constantly shuffling about, amongst themselves.

No - they shuffle when the wizard moves. It's another reason why it's important to let people pick their image:

Wizard moves - images shuffle.
Enemy archer fires three arrows, using Rapid Shot. One misses; one pops a figment; one hits the real wizard. "It's that one!" he yells.

Until the wizard's next action, everyone knows who he is, and can target the real wizard. As soon as he moves, the figments shuffle, and you're back to square one...

OTOH, just because MM will "fail" when targetting a noncreature (a statue, for example), does not have to mean no missiles are fired.

You are, of course, welcome to run it that way - and I'm sure the Sage would agree with you.

When I read "If you cast a targeted spell on the wrong sort of target, such as casting charm person on a dog, the spell has no effect", I consider "glowing darts of magical energy" to be an effect. Others see the effect as "1d4+1 damage per missile". It's up to you.

-Hyp.