Distrusting NPC Issues

[Rechan]

I've had several groups who showed outward distrust of any NPC that was direct or honest with them. If they captured an NPC to interrogate them, and the guy said everything he knew right away, they didn't trust him. If someone was a little shady but was forward with what they wanted and why, the players just refused to accept it because it was too clear. They expected NPCs to lie through their teeth even when I wasn't having them lie.

There's also this:

I remember a stretch when I was joining a series of different games mid-campaign . . . and in each one the DM (different DMs) had me roll up a standard character of the appropriate level, and then promptly stripped my character of all possessions (and clothes) and dropped me a dungeon cell for the other player's to "find". That was irritating enough.

But then, each time, the party decided they couldn't trust the naked guy in the dungeon cell and either wouldn't let me out, or would let me tag along in my skivvies with a borrowed rusty short sword . . . .

How the hell do you deal with players who just won't trust NPCs? Who expect double crosses or betrayals when none come? It really can hamper the game too.

 

[Spinachcat]

You introduce NPCs through their own chain of command. AKA, the cleric visits his temple and a high priest introduces an NPC as a fellow worshiper and friend of the temple. If the cleric distrusts the NPC, it will insult his high priest.

Also, whoever sends the PCs on a mission, aka The King or whoever, also sends along a NPC for whatever reason.

The key with these NPCs is to make them trustworthy. Let them cast Know Alignment and find out the NPC is LG. If the players discover that their is a balance between Villain NPCs, True Ally NPCs and Neutral NPCs, then they won't make instant assumptions.

Also, if the party is complaining about whether to believe a NPC, just call for a WIS roll and if they pass, tell 'em "your PC is sure he is telling the truth."

I've been doing "Sense Motive" checks since the 70s with just "roll Wisdom" and being done with the arguing.

 

[Oryan77]

It doesn't matter to me if the PCs trust an NPC or not. I deal with the same thing you mentioned all the time and it cracks me up. In fact, my players seem to put trust in the NPCs that are actually lying to them, and then the honest NPCs can't build any trust no matter how specific and open he is with information.

I'm not sure if it is a form of metagaming or not, but it seems like they expect to be double crossed by everyone. So any guy that is up front with them must be lying!

Social skill rolls amuse me too. I've always felt they were pretty pointless in a way. Most of the time when a player rolls a social skill check and I give him his answer/reply, he'll ignore that answer/reply and stick to his own assumptions anyway. So when they roll for Sense Motive and my NPC is telling the truth and I tell them that he seems to be honest, if they already think he is lying, they'll assume I must have failed on their skill check and he's lying to them.

It can be fun to watch players dig their own grave in social situations. My wife once Fireballed a good NPC that was telling them the truth and spilling his guts because she assumed he was lying (even after I rolled her skill checks and told her he seems to be telling the truth). She felt bad after the game when I told her she almost killed a completely innocent man.

 

[Dice4Hire]

It is a problem. You get some DMs training characters to distrust NPCs and some DMs relying on those same players trusting NPCs.

Or in one of my games, you get players antagonizing NPCs until they NPCs get mad and then saying the NPCs would have screwed them in any case.

 

[Quickleaf]

How the hell do you deal with players who just won't trust NPCs? Who expect double crosses or betrayals when none come? It really can hamper the game too.

Out of game, you could talk about their past DMs (who I'm guessing were rat bastards) and explain you're not one of those. Whether or not it's true. Heh.

In game, you can pull a reversal: give the PCs the opportunity to double cross an NPC "before they get backstabbed by the NPC." After they double cross the NPC, set up a scene to reveal the NPC was completely innocent. Unless you've got a truly mercenary party, there is bound to be some remorse and reconsideration of their default position that everyone is a murderous cutthroat out to backstab their PCs.

You could even have an NPC comment before or after the event about how notoriously untrustworthy adventurers are.

 

[Wiseblood]

Is this because of social skill catch 22?

Sense motive can help you tell when you are being lied to.

Bluff can make your lies convincing.

If an NPC doesn't believe the truth do you have to bluff to convince them?

If their sense motive beats your bluff do they think you are lying?

If this is not the case. I would recommend 3 things.

Send the PC's to meet said NPC's. They will feel like they earned it.

or

Make sure the pc's can check the NPC's story out. Prior to the meeting.

or

Make sure the PC's need our NPC for something.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I've had several groups who showed outward distrust of any NPC that was direct or honest with them.

To me, this is another outgrowth of the "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, a fooler can't get fooled again" [or however that goes] reaction to past DMs that also expresses itself as perennially orphaned characters.

"Don't have families in your backstory, because the DM will just have the monsters kill / BBEG kidnap / evil cult sacrifice your sister / mom / uncle, so you might as well do it yourself a long time before the game starts."

On the other hand, and cribbing heavily from the Evil Overlord List, "I will classify [NPCs] in three categories: untrusted, trusted, and completely trusted. Promotion to the third category will be awarded posthumously."

 

[ExploderWizard]

Let them trust and distrust who they like. Remember that if they trust no one, ever then they are unlikely to have anyone trust them.

Someone that unwilling to trust anyone for any reason must be that way because they believe everyone is a lying scoundrel right? If that be the case, then they (the PC's) must be untrustworthy too.

 

[Crothian]

My players have a habit of trusting the worng people. In past campaigns as a good party they got in a verbal shouting match with the Paladins they were supposed to help and then abondoned them. But the evil cultist seemed like really cool guys so they must be okay.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Clearly your players want to deal with untrustworthy NPCs. So, as a good DM, give them what they want and have all the NPCs stab the PCs in the back.