Ditch Hit Dice!

[Gort]

A little off-topic, but is anyone else annoyed by how accurate the larger monsters become just due to their size?

Even if you set aside the bonus hit dice that incidentally come along with becoming bigger, you get +8 strength, which is worth +4 to hit, and size penalties are only a -1! Am I the only one who would like to see giants that, instead of being mega-accurate with their huge clubs, instead miss a lot against the tiny ant-like player races, but if they DO land a hit, swat them like flies?

Same thing with grapple checks. At a certain point, big creatures cannot fail to grapple small ones, even if they roll a 1 and the small guy rolls a 20.

And that sucks! I want little creatures diving between the sluggish big-guys legs while he utterly destroys the scenery around them. I want big dumb slow critters having a hard time reaching the nimble guy dodging them all the time.

And perhaps armour and shields (shields particularly) should be less useful against creatures of such incredible size and power? Standing still and getting hit by a giant ought to kill you!

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

A little off-topic, but is anyone else annoyed by how accurate the larger monsters become just due to their size?

Even if you set aside the bonus hit dice that incidentally come along with becoming bigger, you get +8 strength, which is worth +4 to hit, and size penalties are only a -1! Am I the only one who would like to see giants that, instead of being mega-accurate with their huge clubs, instead miss a lot against the tiny ant-like player races, but if they DO land a hit, swat them like flies?

Same thing with grapple checks. At a certain point, big creatures cannot fail to grapple small ones, even if they roll a 1 and the small guy rolls a 20.

And that sucks! I want little creatures diving between the sluggish big-guys legs while he utterly destroys the scenery around them. I want big dumb slow critters having a hard time reaching the nimble guy dodging them all the time.

And perhaps armour and shields (shields particularly) should be less useful against creatures of such incredible size and power? Standing still and getting hit by a giant ought to kill you!

That's not off-topic at all. This is exactly the type of problem I'm trying to address. Under my system, the BAB of large creatures doesn't go through the roof (because BAB is based on level, not size). When they do connect, their damage potential is still as high though, as it should be.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I firmly believe that the folks at WotC sift thru these forums for ideas, especially the house rules forum. I wouldn't be surprised to see a LOT of the ideas posted on enworld appearing in 4.0 whenever it comes out (hopefully not soon tho)

Hagen

I hope that they do go through these boards. I see a lot of good ideas here. Here's an interesting one I saw the other day: Weapon Use Variant

My prediction for 4.0: 3 more years.

 

[scholz]

Hmm. This has some some good points. But keep in mind. If you get a colossal sheep without increasing its level on your account, it will actually have a harder time hitting than a normal sheep.

Colossal creatures get minus 3 on all attacks. And assuming you haven't given it greater strength or hit dice. It will be worse at fighting than a normal sheep.

I think the system of advancing monsters suggests that you are making them better, not just bigger. Why have some monsters get bigger when they are advanced? Well, I think in most cases, it seems to make sense. A more dangerous bear is going to be a bigger bear. Of course, there is no rule that says you can't make a bear that has two levels of warrior or something.

If you want a large creature that is not particularly dangerous just make one. I don't believe that there is a rule that says you have to be X hd in order to be large, huge or whatever.

 

[gamecat]

Ditto to what scholz said. Advancing in hit dice for a monster is no different than a PC gaining hit dice... muddle that system up and we're back to 2.0 where monsters advance differently than characters.

I'd just run a house rule that Dolly the sheep-cloning accident is now colossal, with the same HD, maybe dropping some toughness bonus feats on her.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Hmm. This has some some good points. But keep in mind. If you get a colossal sheep without increasing its level on your account, it will actually have a harder time hitting than a normal sheep.

Colossal creatures get minus 3 on all attacks. And assuming you haven't given it greater strength or hit dice. It will be worse at fighting than a normal sheep.

If the creature is bigger, its Str will increase also, so it won't actually be worse at fighting. I mentioned that somewhere in one of my posts...

I think the system of advancing monsters suggests that you are making them better, not just bigger. Why have some monsters get bigger when they are advanced? Well, I think in most cases, it seems to make sense. A more dangerous bear is going to be a bigger bear.

Yes, or it could be a smarter, or older (and more experienced) bear. There's nothing wrong with making a creature bigger to advance it - that's a good alternative type of advancement, actually. My system doesn't prevent this, but now I'm explicitly including it. Thanks!

Of course, there is no rule that says you can't make a bear that has two levels of warrior or something.

If you want a large creature that is not particularly dangerous just make one. I don't believe that there is a rule that says you have to be X hd in order to be large, huge or whatever.

It does seem to be a rule-of-thumb though, doesn't it *flips through Monster Manual*?

Ditto to what scholz said. Advancing in hit dice for a monster is no different than a PC gaining hit dice... muddle that system up and we're back to 2.0 where monsters advance differently than characters.

I don't understand your comment. My system makes monster descriptions EXACTLY like character descriptions by removing the one stat that monsters and PCs don't share - Hit Dice. Under my system, monsters advance exactly the same way that PCs do: you can give them extra monster levels or PC levels to reflect a more experienced or 'veteran' type monster. If you want to advance a creature to reflect a genetically larger creature instead, you can do as scholz suggested and increase their size category (to increase their Wounds points) and even their ability scores.

The basis for my system is that Hit Dice is a flawed statistic. It tries to cover both level of prowess, like a PC level, and granting additional hit points due to large size. My point is that this oversimplification causes weird glitches in the rules, especially noticeable at high-level play, where AC becomes meaningless and low-level spells are powerless because of the incredible BABs and saving throws that result from using a combined level/size stat instead of just a level.

Thanks to both of you for your replies.