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Divine Challenge at the end of your turn
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<blockquote data-quote="beepeearr" data-source="post: 4451340" data-attributes="member: 20548"><p>You mark the target. The target remains marked until</p><p>you use this power against another target, or if you fail</p><p>to engage the target (see below). </p><p></p><p>On your turn, you must engage the target you challenged</p><p>or challenge a different target. To engage the target, you must either attack it or end your turn adjacent to it. If none of these events occur by the end of your turn, the marked condition ends and you can’t use divine challenge</p><p>on your next turn.</p><p></p><p>You can use divine challenge once per turn.</p><p></p><p>Looking at the key sentences in question, here is my take.</p><p></p><p>This is a very poorly worded power. Way too many contradictions. For instance why spend a minor action to use this power against another target when you can apparently switch targets each round, and if you can just simply switch targets like it currently implies, are we to assume the new target must be in the initial burst, or just within a certain numbers of the paladin while the power is active. </p><p></p><p>If you can't just switch targets, why even have that sentence, if you are in fact simply using the power again (spending the minor action to do so). This entire sentence could have been omitted.</p><p></p><p>Or can you only switch targets if you did not engage your previous target, say you DC a goblin one round, attack him the next and drop him, can you switch the target of your previous DC (neither death or unconsciousness are listed as reasons for the DC to end) or do you have to spend a minor to reactivate DC. </p><p></p><p>Also I don't read it as you have to engage on the turn you used DC, just as having to engage at the next available opportunity or switch to a new target. Other wise it would have been worded as such. Note that it says you must engage or choose a new target, not engage or choose a new target and engage it. It also never specifically states that you must engage it on the turn it is activated, only that the targets need to be engaged in order for the mark to remain after it's initial creation.</p><p></p><p>It's seems both reasonable and in character for a Paladin to be able to attack his foe, slaying it, then move towards an ally under attack, DC his opponent, using up his available actions. Next round if he fails to engage that opponent or designate a new one, DC ends and he can't use it next turn. </p><p></p><p>Both interpretations have flaws though. lack of significant wording tends to lead to one, while the other could lead to a situation were the paladin never engages an opponent, but instead switches targets every round. </p><p></p><p>I think this just a prime example of a change they made at the last minute, but didn't get the chance to fine tune the rules or wording. Kind of like they've done with the skill system. Skill challenges used to be too hard, now they seem too easy. </p><p></p><p>If I had to right this rule I think I would go with something like this.</p><p></p><p>You mark the target. The target remains marked until</p><p>you use this power against another target, or if you fail</p><p>to engage the target (see below). </p><p></p><p>You must engage the target you challenged by the end of your next turn</p><p></p><p>To engage the target, you must either attack it or end your turn adjacent to it. If none of these events occur by the end of your turn, the marked condition ends and you can’t use divine challenge on your next turn.</p><p></p><p>You can use divine challenge once per turn.</p><p></p><p>The wording is simple and clear and the confusion of why use the power if you can simply switch targets is removed. if for some reason you won't be able to engage your target spend the minor action to DC a different opponent (since the target of a DC cannot be targeted by another one) so you don't lose the ability to so for a round.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="beepeearr, post: 4451340, member: 20548"] You mark the target. The target remains marked until you use this power against another target, or if you fail to engage the target (see below). On your turn, you must engage the target you challenged or challenge a different target. To engage the target, you must either attack it or end your turn adjacent to it. If none of these events occur by the end of your turn, the marked condition ends and you can’t use divine challenge on your next turn. You can use divine challenge once per turn. Looking at the key sentences in question, here is my take. This is a very poorly worded power. Way too many contradictions. For instance why spend a minor action to use this power against another target when you can apparently switch targets each round, and if you can just simply switch targets like it currently implies, are we to assume the new target must be in the initial burst, or just within a certain numbers of the paladin while the power is active. If you can't just switch targets, why even have that sentence, if you are in fact simply using the power again (spending the minor action to do so). This entire sentence could have been omitted. Or can you only switch targets if you did not engage your previous target, say you DC a goblin one round, attack him the next and drop him, can you switch the target of your previous DC (neither death or unconsciousness are listed as reasons for the DC to end) or do you have to spend a minor to reactivate DC. Also I don't read it as you have to engage on the turn you used DC, just as having to engage at the next available opportunity or switch to a new target. Other wise it would have been worded as such. Note that it says you must engage or choose a new target, not engage or choose a new target and engage it. It also never specifically states that you must engage it on the turn it is activated, only that the targets need to be engaged in order for the mark to remain after it's initial creation. It's seems both reasonable and in character for a Paladin to be able to attack his foe, slaying it, then move towards an ally under attack, DC his opponent, using up his available actions. Next round if he fails to engage that opponent or designate a new one, DC ends and he can't use it next turn. Both interpretations have flaws though. lack of significant wording tends to lead to one, while the other could lead to a situation were the paladin never engages an opponent, but instead switches targets every round. I think this just a prime example of a change they made at the last minute, but didn't get the chance to fine tune the rules or wording. Kind of like they've done with the skill system. Skill challenges used to be too hard, now they seem too easy. If I had to right this rule I think I would go with something like this. You mark the target. The target remains marked until you use this power against another target, or if you fail to engage the target (see below). You must engage the target you challenged by the end of your next turn To engage the target, you must either attack it or end your turn adjacent to it. If none of these events occur by the end of your turn, the marked condition ends and you can’t use divine challenge on your next turn. You can use divine challenge once per turn. The wording is simple and clear and the confusion of why use the power if you can simply switch targets is removed. if for some reason you won't be able to engage your target spend the minor action to DC a different opponent (since the target of a DC cannot be targeted by another one) so you don't lose the ability to so for a round. [/QUOTE]
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