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Divine Focus in use... what??

Nifelhein

First Post
An issue appeared around the divine focus component of a spell, the rules say it must be provided by divine spellcasters but speaks nothing of how that works, one says it suffices to carry the focus on yourself, I say that a focus must be used to focus the spell power and thus requires holding it much like a turn attempt does.

What are your thoughts guys and girls?
 

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irdeggman

First Post
Actually:


To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell.

So you have to manipulate the focus to cast a spell that requires one.
 

seans23

First Post
I've always envisioned the cleric touching the holy symbol hanging around his neck, or forcibly gripping it in one hand.

I suppose that's just a flavor answer, and not a rules answer, though.
 

DogBackward

First Post
Just to be contrary, from Dungeonscape, page 34, under Sanctified (Armor or Shield):

"Normally, a divine focus does not have to be in hand to cast a spell, so a sanctified shield is a matter of personal style for clerics who prefer a shield to an amulet."
 

Nifelhein

First Post
seans23 said:
I've always envisioned the cleric touching the holy symbol hanging around his neck, or forcibly gripping it in one hand.

I suppose that's just a flavor answer, and not a rules answer, though.

That is the same answer I gave myself, but I agree with you, but then we have two conflicting stances, I thank you irggman for the answer, I knew it had to be there somewhere, but with that cityscape might just haev worded it poorly, having a shield instead of holding a symbol is fine, if you can keep the shield bonus while using it as a focu, that is. ;)
 

Mistwell

Legend
They do not have to be mutually exclusive. You can manipulate something without it being in hand. For example, if it is hanging from your neck, and you can use the hand you use to cast the somatic componants to touch the symbol on your neck, then that may be enough to manipulate it, without it actually being in hand.
 

Votan

Explorer
Mistwell said:
They do not have to be mutually exclusive. You can manipulate something without it being in hand. For example, if it is hanging from your neck, and you can use the hand you use to cast the somatic componants to touch the symbol on your neck, then that may be enough to manipulate it, without it actually being in hand.

This is actually important because it can make a big difference in a cleric combat casting if they have to free a hand or not. This is especially true with the (ever popular) sword and shield style of cleric. :)
 

Diirk

First Post
Votan said:
This is actually important because it can make a big difference in a cleric combat casting if they have to free a hand or not. This is especially true with the (ever popular) sword and shield style of cleric. :)

It pretty simple; unless the only spell component is verbal, then you need a hand free. A lot of DMs may overlook this and let your cleric with a warhammer and a heavy shield cast spells anyway, but by RAW this isn't allowed.
 

UltimaGabe

First Post
There's a feat in Complete Mage, however (the name escapes me right now...), that allows you to use a weapon or a similar-sized object to form the Somatic Components of your spells, rather than an empty hand. So with that feat, you can have both hands full, as long as one of them is holding something of reasonable size and weight, and still cast spells with Somatic Components.
 

irdeggman

First Post
Yeah the rules are real awkward.

You must have a free hande for somatic components.

You must also have a free hand for material components.

And you must manipulate a focus.

If someone is "picky" that adds up to 3 hands.

I've house ruled (or specified since the rules can be interpreted my way too I believe) that a caster needs a single free hand to cast a spell with: a somatic, material component and a focus.

As part of the casting he incorporates the material components and focus in with the somatic component.

Otherwise you end up with the weaponless. shieldless cleric casting spells or a caster with 3 (or more) hands.
 

nittanytbone

First Post
Just use a light shield so you can hold something (a weapon or holy symbol) in your off hand as needed. With a BAB+1 or greater you can drow something for free as part of normal movement.

This issue really only affects 1 step of AC (Light Shield/Buckler vs. Heavy Shield)
 

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