Divine Metamagic Level Limitations?

[tomBitonti]

Hi,

Is there a limit on what level spell can be affected by a metamagic feat that
is cast in its own slot while benefiting from a metamagic feat, because the cost
of applying the metamagic feat was paid for using turning attempts via divine
metamatic?

For example, given a 5'th cleric (so, slots at 0, 1, 2 and 3) with divine metamagic
applied to reach spell (add 30' to the range of a touch spell; cast the spell in a
slot two levels higher), to what level spells can the feat be applied? All of them?
Only 0 and 1?

The reason for the limitation would be that the normal application of reach spell
(for this particular caster) is limited to 0 and 1 level spells, as applying the feat
to 2 and 3 spells would push the slot above those available.

This is a house rule I have been using, based on the limitations of the 'sudden'
metamagic feats (if I remember correctly). However, I haven't seen any official
ruling that actually imposes such a limitation.

I ask because I recently realized that metamagic doesn't change the level of the
spell being cast, only the slot necessary to cast the spell. This would seem to
argue against the limitation.

Thx,

T

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

There's no such limit for divine metamagic.

Some think there should be.

 

[Mistwell]

Divine metamagic doesn't have a level limit.

It certainly SHOULD have the same level limit of similar abilities. But so far, it does not.

 

[Corsair]

There is no such limit on sudden metamagic either.

 

[Thanee]

There should be such a limit on ALL metamagic-for-free abilites. One should never be able to cast spells with an effective level (including the normal metamagic modifier(s)) above the highest slot available.

Or at the very least, spells should not break 9th level.

But yeah, that's just a 'should' and not how it is.

Bye
Thanee

 

[amethal]

There should be such a limit on ALL metamagic-for-free abilites. One should never be able to cast spells with an effective level (including the normal metamagic modifier(s)) above the highest slot available.

Or at the very least, spells should not break 9th level.

But yeah, that's just a 'should' and not how it is.

Bye
Thanee

Do you think divine metamagic would still be worth taking if you imposed your first restriction?

I think the second restriction is vital, and introduced that house rule as soon as I saw the feat.

Presumably, the +6 level adjustment of persistent spell was imposed to ensure spells of 4th level and above could never be made persistent, so it raises serious balance issues if some of them now can be.

Otherwise, my game would descend (even further) into farce with every encounter starting off with several volleys of dispel magic.

 

[Corsair]

There should be such a limit on ALL metamagic-for-free abilites. One should never be able to cast spells with an effective level (including the normal metamagic modifier(s)) above the highest slot available.

Or at the very least, spells should not break 9th level.

But yeah, that's just a 'should' and not how it is.

Bye
Thanee

I put my own slight twist on sudden metamagic in my game (no one has tried divine metamagic yet). To use Sudden Metamagic, you have to spend an additional spell slot to power the feat equal to the amount that the Metamagic would normally cost. For Sudden Still you'd have to burn an extra first level spell. For sudden empower it'd cost you an extra 2nd, etc. I'm not a big fan of the "something for nothing" sudden metamagic.

 

[the Jester]

Heck, I've generally banned sudden metamagic because of the metamagic for free issue. I will allow Divine Metamagic but will only let you use metamagic feats you have actually taken with it, so at least it has a cost.

I did, however, 'flex' the rules in a very specialized situation, and allowed a limbless elf to take Sudden Still Spell for setting-specific reasons.

 

[Mistwell]

There should be such a limit on ALL metamagic-for-free abilites. One should never be able to cast spells with an effective level (including the normal metamagic modifier(s)) above the highest slot available.

Or at the very least, spells should not break 9th level.

But yeah, that's just a 'should' and not how it is.

Bye
Thanee

I 100% agree (which is unusual). In fact, I think eventually (I hope) WOTC will get around to adding the same exact errata that they did for the Incantatrix, which says: "...cannot use this ability if the metamagicked spell would normally use a spell slot of a higher level than she can cast."

 

[Infiniti2000]

I will allow Divine Metamagic but will only let you use metamagic feats you have actually taken with it, so at least it has a cost.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, that's the rule.