Divine might as 'not an action'

[FreeTheSlaves]

Okay, the DotF has a feat called divine might that requires a standard action to activate. I really don't like that mechanic and rather it is 'not an action' like power attack.

My proposal is to make it still use up a turn attempt to activate but that it lasts a full round. Essentially giving up the duration for immediate use.

Now the most comparable feats are power attack and weapon specialization.

Question is, is this too much?

 

[Mr. Gnome]

Okay, if I understand your complaint about Divine Might, you're complaining that it's an action to activate, rather than a non-action.

Actually, it doesn't *say* in DoTF that it takes a standard action to activate, but that is what I too assumed. However, to quote the official WoTC FAQ, you'll see the following:

The Divine Might feat from Defenders of the Faith lets
you use a turn/rebuke attempt to get a combat bonus.
Does that mean that you mark off a turn/rebuke attempt
for the day? Or does it mean you spend a standard action
to activate the effect, just like a turn/rebuke attempt? Or
is it a free action?
Using Divine Might does not require an action at all. You
can use the feat any time you attack, and you simply
announce that youíre using it and mark off a turn/rebuke use
for the day.

So basically, it *is* a non-action, but with a duration. I was quite frankly extremely surprised by this, as my current character had been using Divine Shield (which is worded the same way as Divine Might, so would work the same way) under the assumption that it *was* a standard action to activate. And I had found the ability to be very powerful as it was. And now it was even better.

Anyhow, I hope this clarifies things.

--The Gnome

 

[Destil]

There are two interpertations of the FAQ:

A) Using DM is not an action, but activating it is. Using it is just part of an attack, but to activate it you need a standard action.

B) It's not an action, peroid, like power attack. Given that this is not explained as either a revison, opinion for balance or eratta and goes directly against what is written in Defenders, it makes things problematic.

Neither of these sit well with me. I've been using divine feats as such in my game and don't have any problems with them:

If the feat's benifits last for a duration of one round or less: Free action to activate.

If the feat's benifits last for a duration of rounds (Cha bonus rounds, for instance): Move-equivelent to activate

If the feat's benifits last longer than that (listed in minuits or more): standard action to activate.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I have to say Mr Gnome that I could not accept that official FAQ because it makes divine might better than weapon specialization. Thank you for the swift reply however. Frankly I no longer accept WotC as gospel, better to take issues to forums.

It appears that to balance the 'not an action' status, I should make it last for a solitary but full round?

 

[Khaalis]

I have to say Mr Gnome that I could not accept that official FAQ because it makes divine might better than weapon specialization. Thank you for the swift reply however. Frankly I no longer accept WotC as gospel, better to take issues to forums.
It appears that to balance the 'not an action' status, I should make it last for a solitary but full round?

I strongly disagree with this statement. DM is NOT more powerful than Weapon Specialization. If anything it is roughly equivalent in balance if not a little weaker, as DM is finite while Specialization is indefinate.

Lets Compare: 4th level Figter vs a 4th level Cleric.

4th Level Fighter requires Weapon Focus to take Weapon Specialization, gaining a +2 Damage to EVERY hit (attack +8, assuming a 16 STR).

4th Level Cleric requires a Charisma 13+, Strength 13+ and Power Attack, and the ability to Turn. Lets assume a Charisma 16 (+3), even say that with their other 2 feats by 4th level (assuming human) they took Extra Turning. (This is a rather ludicrous example.) So now the Cleric can use DM 14 times per day for 3 rounds each at +3 damage to each hit (+6, assuming a 16 Strength).

A more reslistic example is: 4th Level Cleric - Lets assume a Charisma 16 (+3). They would get to use DM 6 times per day for 3 rounds each at +3 damage to each hit (+6, assuming a 16 Strength).


Most encounters lasts 5-10 rounds (30 seconds to a minute).

The Cleric with Extra Turning is done with DM after roughly 4-6 encounters, while the Cleric with only 6 uses is done in roughly 2-3 encounters. The cleric will also not hit as often in those 3 rounds as the fighter.

The Fighter never runs out of Specialization useage.

As for the "action" involved. Specialization does not require an action to utilize either. I think DM is a well balanced feat as is.

 

[Jeph]

Most encounters lasts 5-10 rounds (30 seconds to a minute).

Huh? IME, most last 3 or 4, unless it's a REALLY BIG battle.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

DM is more powerful than weapon specialization if is unaltered except for being not-an-action, as WotC faq suggests.

Worst case scenario is best to show this. Okay get a paladin who will already want to boost charisma right? This bonus will only get bigger as the character progresses so that gives more damage, more duration and more often.

E.g. my paladin had 20 charisma at level 10, a +5 bonus.

Combat may last many rounds but the paladin will spend only a portion of that up close for full attacks, the remainder is maneuvering. So, the paladin (just like the barbarian) waits until he is close enough before activating DM.

How many fights do the party face per day? That 20 charisma paladin can gain an extra +5 damage (for 5 rounds), 8 times per day. Or 40 rounds. A 16 cha (+3) paladin would get 18 rounds.

Even taking into account the need to actually turn undead this only gets more sick as the charisma increases. You'd easily get to the point when it is always in use. I think as at the base 3rd level, it would be most comparable to specialization.

My proposed house-rule is to make DM not-an-action but limit it to one full round per use. The above paladin would have 8 rounds of usage.

 

[Saeviomagy]

A better comparison would be with rage. Rage gives a +4 to strength AND con, but a -2 to ac. It's limited in duration, takes no action to activate, but it's uses per day are very firmly linked to level, and when it wears off, the penalties are quite severe. I'd have to say that divine might, as a free action, would be much more powerful than it.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Agreed

 

[Derulbaskul]

Perhaps it should require expenditure of two or even four turning attempts?