Pathfinder 1E Diving in to Pathfinder

[OnlineDM]

I'm always interested in learning new games, so when I was offered the chance to join a new Pathfinder campaign I decided to go for it. More details are here on my blog.

Since I value the thoughts and opinions of the EN World community, do you have any advice for me? I'm still relatively new to RPGs overall, having started playing D&D 4th Edition regularly about a year and a half ago (though I've spent a LOT of hours with the game in that time and still spend lots of time with the game today). I had some familiarity with D&D 3.0 about nine years ago, too, though I never played regularly. So, Pathfinder isn't completely alien to me.

I've read the most important parts of the Core Rulebook. I get the general idea (and I know that my fellow players and the GM will help whenever I get confused). Are there any habits or expectation I might have from D&D 4e that I'll want to drop for Pathfinder games? Or should I be able to slide into another RPG pretty easily?

 

[IronWolf]

I've read the most important parts of the Core Rulebook. I get the general idea (and I know that my fellow players and the GM will help whenever I get confused). Are there any habits or expectation I might have from D&D 4e that I'll want to drop for Pathfinder games? Or should I be able to slide into another RPG pretty easily?

Really, I think if you go into it with an open mind you'll do fine. Sounds like you have a group of players who will help you along as you play to get over any initial learning curves. I find Pathfinder quite fun - but it isn't for everyone. Go into it with the open mind and you'll find out which you prefer.

I also read your blog and noticed you mention of a character creation tool. There are several out there that do pretty good. On the free side there is PC Gen.

There is also at least one Excel based one that gets mentioned on the Paizo forums frequently.

The one I use and think is great is Hero Lab. It isn't free, but it is a great character generator and can be pretty flexible if you get into it enough.

Enjoy Pathfinder and feel free to ask you questions here as you go!

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Really, I think if you go into it with an open mind you'll do fine. Sounds like you have a group of players who will help you along as you play to get over any initial learning curves. I find Pathfinder quite fun - but it isn't for everyone. Go into it with the open mind and you'll find out which you prefer.

I also read your blog and noticed you mention of a character creation tool. There are several out there that do pretty good. On the free side there is PC Gen.

There is also at least one Excel based one that gets mentioned on the Paizo forums frequently.

The one I use and think is great is Hero Lab. It isn't free, but it is a great character generator and can be pretty flexible if you get into it enough.

Enjoy Pathfinder and feel free to ask you questions here as you go!

The downside of Hero Lab is that it gets expensive, fast.

Base Pathfinder $20.
APG $10
Ultimate Magic $10
Bestiary $15
Bestiary 2 $10
Player's Companion Bundle $15 (In case you wondered - no APG or UM)
Campaign Setting Bundle $20 (No Bestiaries)
Being able to add your own content is another $20.

There's a hundred bucks, right there. Not what I would call a bargain basement price. I totaled it up, choked, said 'no thanks' and loaded up PCGen instead of buying Hero Lab. More than anything else it was the fact that Lone Wolf charges for you to add your own content that offended me.

The Auld Grump

 

[DaveMage]

I wish Hero Lab had a lifetime subscription price that automatically gave you everything for $99 or somesuch.

I'm not interested until they offer some sort of "all-in-one".

In the meantime, I use The Only Sheet for character creation and it works for me. ($19.99)

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

More than anything else it was the fact that Lone Wolf charges for you to add your own content that offended me.

No need to be offended, then! You're right, it's not cheap. But they do not, in fact, charge you to add your own content. The $20 package with the Authoring Kit is for building your own game system from the ground up.

HeroLab comes standard with an editor that allows you to customize/add custom content to any of the supported game systems. Add your own house rules, build your own races/items/spells/feats/traits/skills/archetypes/classes or anything else you want. No extra charge. If you have the time and expertise, once you've bought the core system I think you could actually add yourself all of the content that they make available for purchase.

There's also a fairly extensive library of user created content already available.

I wish Hero Lab had a lifetime subscription price that automatically gave you everything for $99 or somesuch.

That would be nice! Of course, it would be nice if Paizo did the same thing . . . A more realistic request might be a subscription that gets you a discount on new material (similar to what Paizo does).

 

[IronWolf]

The downside of Hero Lab is that it gets expensive, fast.

There's a hundred bucks, right there. Not what I would call a bargain basement price. I totaled it up, choked, said 'no thanks' and loaded up PCGen instead of buying Hero Lab.

It has a price to it and it took me awhile to get comfortable with purchasing it. It has been well worth it though for the time it saves me in character creation to checking characters for campaigns I run.

You don't have to buy all the parts up front. In fact I only have the core and APG and I still find it very useful. At this point I have spread the cost out over a very long time which makes adding purchased content even more amiable as I have had the up front cost for the base package out of the way for a long time.

I do think a lifetime up front fee would have been awesome or a discounted subscription option would be nice - but so far I am very happy with the product and found it worthwhile.

I brought Hero Lab up just to let onlineGM know there were good character gen tools out there. Especially since he was comparing a pay option in 4E to a free option (and one I had not seen before) for Pathfinder. PC Gen is certainly a valid option as well for character gen or the one DavetheMage mentioned as well.

 

[Nebten]

The downside of Hero Lab is that it gets expensive, fast.

Base Pathfinder $20.
APG $10
Ultimate Magic $10
Bestiary $15
Bestiary 2 $10
Player's Companion Bundle $15 (In case you wondered - no APG or UM)
Campaign Setting Bundle $20 (No Bestiaries)
Being able to add your own content is another $20.

As a player, you don't need either Bestiary (-$35).
I don't know where you are getting the $20 to add your own content because you can make data files on your own with core material already. I believe you are thinking of the Authoring Kit, which you don't need for Pathfinder custom content. That's only used for a custom RPG system.
Therefore you don't need the items from the Campaign or Player's Bundles since you can add whatever few choices those other Bundles offer as custom data files.
Besides, if you are just starting out, you are not going to have every single book in hand. So why worry about needing them in Hero Lab. You don't know what your are missing if never had it in the first place, right? =v)
In all honesty though, the proof is in the pudding. Try both programs out and you will know if it's worth your investment.

As for habits & differences from the 2 systems, this is what I noticed from just over the weekend after running PFS games for people who've been playing in the weekly 4th ed Encounters games. Very minor things which I would hope your fellow gamers gently inform you about during the course of play:
1. A 5' step is a non-action (PF) vs a 1 sq' shift which is a move action (4th ed). This is under normal circumstances as a player.
2. There are more actions that provoke attacks of opportunity (AoO) in PF compared to actions that cause opportunity attacks (OA) in 4th ed. At low level the most common are standing from prone or drinking a potion (AoO's). For magic users, casting of all spells will always provoke AoO but this can be negated by Concentration checks (covered in the rules).
3. The divine caster (cleric) in most games takes on the responsibility for the well-being of the party.

There are multitude of differences, but those are my most common observations.
Try to treat it as a completely different game system in the beginning (like D&D vs Call of Cthulhu). If you can find similarities to latch onto, great! Otherwise, overall it will feel like a different game.
In the end, it's still kill bad guys, take their loot & have a smile on your face while doing it.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

As a player, you don't need either Bestiary (-$35).
I don't know where you are getting the $20 to add your own content because you can make data files on your own with core material already. I believe you are thinking of the Authoring Kit, which you don't need for Pathfinder custom content. That's only used for a custom RPG system.
Therefore you don't need the items from the Campaign or Player's Bundles since you can add whatever few choices those other Bundles offer as custom data files.
Besides, if you are just starting out, you are not going to have every single book in hand. So why worry about needing them in Hero Lab. You don't know what your are missing if never had it in the first place, right? =v)
In all honesty though, the proof is in the pudding. Try both programs out and you will know if it's worth your investment.

I am assuming a GM, not a player - Bestiary 1 & 2 Needed, Setting Not Quite Needed, Etc. Etc. Etc.

The Player's Bundle does not add 'just a few choices' - the racial books are among their number. Not core, but also more than a few choices. *EDIT* Don't know what will happen after Advanced Races Guide comes out - much of the content may be subsumed into it. But ARG is just a glow on the horizon.

The Authoring Kit I will admit was a misreading that I made, but it wasn't added to the final number anyway - the price is still $80 -$100 for a GM who wants everything that he might need. Still way too rich for my blood, especially compared to PCGen (free!). If I am going to be adding content by hand anyway the price of the bundles is canceled out, not removed. Doing it by hand is time added to both, and PCGen is still the better bargain.

As a player, I would not bother with Hero Lab or PCGen at all - it is easy enough to generate one character, it is only when dozens of characters, or critters with class levels and/or templates are needed that I would want the computer at all. Otherwise, hand me the books and the dice and leave the computer on the desk.

My advice - try PCGen first, then, if PCGen is not your cuppa, spend the $20 for the Core Pathfinder and maybe splurge for the APG. But you won't be able to use it for monsters in that event. Free for a more complete set is better than $20 for just the Core.

PCGen might be is clunky, but it is also very powerful. And there is a lot of Pathfinder material already added.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* If you are running a game online then Hero Lab makes a lot more sense - I am assuming GM running a game on a tabletop. For online it might be worth $80 - $100.

 

[OnlineDM]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I downloaded PCGen a week or so ago and couldn't figure out how to recognize Pathfinder content; sounds like I should try it again.

I don't mind paying for RPG tools (as evidenced by the fact that I use DDI), but I was surprised that there aren't excellent free tools for Pathfinder with the SRD being out there and all. Shrug.

I'll wait to see how much I play Pathfinder before I spend a lot of money at it, but I appreciate knowing what optionally are out there.

 

[IronWolf]

I am assuming a GM, not a player - Bestiary 1 & 2 Needed, Setting Not Quite Needed, Etc. Etc. Etc.

I GM Pathfinder and do not own Bestiary 1 and 2. I have only found it mildly inconvenient. Admittedly they are likely higher on my list to buy if I choose to pick up some more data sets, but as a "nice to have" - not required.

Of course I tend to run published APs at the moment or PFS scenarios. My desire for the Bestiaries will likely increase if I decide to dabble more strongly in full on adventure design.