DM depressed about Shapechange

[FrankinLondon]

I'm just about to run a 3.5ed module (converted from 3.0) for my (mostly) 17th level party. It's my first attempts at DM'ing such a high level although I have been a D&D DM for 25 years now (on and off).

The party Sorcerer has just pointed out that he will soon gain 9th level spells and is looking forward to using Shapechange. He is particularly keen on being a Pitfiend, which will be legal for him as an 18th level Sorcerer. Casually leafing through the MM, I realised that this will take him from

HP : approx 100, A/C 23 (+3 dex, +5 ring, +5 bracers armour), two (never used) melee attacks of +9/+4 (D4-1)

to

HP : approx 200, A/C 50 (-1 size, +8 dex, +23 natural, +5 ring, +5 bracers Armour), 6 attacks at +20 (2d8+13)*2 / +15 (2d6+6)*2 / +15 (4d6+6+poison+disease) / +15 (2d8+6+constrict), fear aura (DC27), DR 15 (good and silver), immune to fire and poison, resist acid/cold 10, regen 5, spell resistance 32

and this will last for 3 hours (plus the ability to change form every round as well).

On top of this he retains his ability to cast spells as a 18th level sorcerer. He could do the module on his own !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know that 9th level spells are supposed to be powerful, but come on !

Now, I could beef up the monsters in the module considerably (but this would run the risk of easily killing the other members of the party who are nowhere near this sort of power level).

What really ticks me off though is the fear aura. The will saves of the monster types in the module are as follows :-

+22/+14/+8/+22/+11/+6/+14/+10/+11/+15/+12/+12/+18/+20/+11/+32

Excluding the big baddie at the end, this is an average will save of approx 14, leaving the average monster to require a saving throw of 13 to prevent him from fleeing.

This means that statistically 60% of my pre-big baddie monsters are going to drop everything and run when they get within 20 feet of the Sorcerer (and with those hps and a/c he's not going to be shy about coming forward).

Also, as the highest caster level baddie in the module is 19th level, it means that due to his SR, 60% of my spells (actually much higher as most casters are lower than this) will be bouncing off him.

Finally, a simple cast of Shield will give him an A/C of 54. The best A/C in the rest of the party is 40, with the average being around 35. Most of my monsters just won't hit him very often. If I advance them so that they are hitting him about 30% of the time, they will be hitting the rest of the party virtually automatically.

I kind of feel that it's not worth the effort running the module

I can't be the first DM to come up against this use of Shapechange (and I am aware that there are others that are nearly as bad, e.g. Choker).

Any tips for handling this ?

Frank

 

[Eluvan]

This is why Dungeon Crawls suck at high levels.

Casters can, and will, dominate everything at that kind of level. As you seem to have worked out, Shapechange rules, and quite apart from that the kind of damage they can deal out in a very short space of time is astronomical. This only gets worse as levels advance and you run into the fun that is epic spellcasting.

The game is not balanced at these levels for the same kind of adventure that you would use at lower levels. It simply doesn't work the same way. You have to tailor specific challenges to specific group members, and you have to control things carefully so that it can work without others piling in and simply winning easily. You also need to get used to the fact that at these kind of levels D&D cannot be a combat-based game any more, if it ever was in you campaigns. Apart from anything else, it just gets ridiculous. How many dungeons full of advanced Half-Fiend Insectile Multi-headed Umbral Great Red Wyrms can there be in the world?

I think your mindset is wrong for such a game. If you want an idea of how it can be made to work, some Story Hours might help you. Specifically I think Sep's story hour (nicely compiled under 'Tales of Wyre' by Cheiromancer) is an exemplary model of how a near-epic and epic game should be run. It starts with the characters at about the kind of levle you are dealing with.

Of course, you might just decide it's not worth the effort. A lot of people don't think it is, and I can see why. Personally though I think it can be very rewarding.

Good luck!

 

[FrankinLondon]

Eluvan

Thanks for your (mostly) wise words.

I do feel that the "your mindset is wrong for such a game" is a bit harsh. I am simply running a published module after all and wondering how to make it a challenge to the party rather than a boring 2-day walkover.

I will read the recommended storyhour thread though. Thanks again for the tips.

Frank

 

[Klaus]

Some key sections of the Shapechange description in the PHB 3.5:

- Duration: 10 min/level. So 180 min, or 3 hours.
- Gains all extraordinary and supernatural abilities from assumed form, but LOSES your own supernatural abilities.
- Type changes to match new form (so outsider [evil] bane weapons do extra damage).
- You can become anything *you are FAMILIAR with*. So no Pit Fiends unless he has seen at least one pit fiend before (for some ammount of time to become "familiar")
- And to cast spells the character needs a form capable of performing the components (verbal, somatic and material). Material components, like in a Polymorph spell, are melded into the form and cannot be used.
- Shapechange is still dispellable.

Having said that, don't forget that he is using shapechange when he could be casting wish or meteor swarm.

 

[Campbell]

While a highly potent spell, Shapechange is not problematic in the way that you believe it is. Let's take a look:

Shapechange

Transmutation

Level: Animal 9, Drd 9, Sor/Wiz 9 Components: V, S, F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 10 min./level (D) This spell functions like polymorph, except that it enables you to assume the form of any single nonunique creature (of any type) from Fine to Colossal size. The assumed form cannot have more than your caster level in Hit Dice (to a maximum of 25 HD). Unlike polymorph, this spell allows incorporeal or gaseous forms to be assumed.

You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form, but you lose your own supernatural abilities. You also gain the type of the new form in place of your own. The new form does not disorient you. Parts of your body or pieces of equipment that are separated from you do not revert to their original forms.

You can become just about anything you are familiar with. You can change form once each round as a free action. The change takes place either immediately before your regular action or immediately after it, but not during the action. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.

Focus: A jade circlet worth no less than 1,500 gp, which you must place on your head when casting the spell. (The focus melds into your new form when you change shape.)

Now let's take a look at the way that polymorph works, specifically the root spells of this chain,Polymorph and Alter Self:

Polymorph

Transmutation

Level: Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Willing living creature touched Duration: 1 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form.

Upon changing, the subject regains lost hit points as if it had rested for a night (though this healing does not restore temporary ability damage and provide other benefits of resting; and changing back does not heal the subject further). If slain, the subject reverts to its original form, though it remains dead.

The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities.

Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.

Material Component: An empty cocoon.

Alter Self

Transmutation

Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 10 min./level (D) You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.

You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).

You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.

If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.

You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.

You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.

You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype.

You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.

When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.

Most importantly no polymorph spell alters a creatures hit points, BAB, or Base Save Bonuses as neither Polymorph nor Shapechange specifically call out an alteration in this reguard from the way Alter Self works. Honestly the most problematic combat use of Shapechange for a Wizard or Sorcerer seems to be assuming the form of a creature with high level Spell Like Abilities, which in certain cases may give players the chance to trade in a 9th level spell to use multiple 8th level and 9th level SLAs. Really what I find problematic about spells like Shapechange is the neccesity to look within two other spell descriptions just to make any kind of sense of them.

As far as the enemy spell caster goes you might want to look into spells like Melf's acid arrow and others that ignore SR, as well as including more battlefield control spells. I would also question if a pit fiend is capable of wearing the equipment that the PC has.

 

[WayneLigon]

Any tips for handling this ?

Dispel Magic, Anti-Magic Shell, etc.

 

[Eluvan]

Hmmm, true, I hadn't noticed that. You get the creature's physical ability scores, but not its BAB or HP. Interesting. What I said still stands as far as I'm concerned though - Shapechange wasn't at the heart of it anyway.

 

[Klaus]

Note that Shapechange specifically mentions gaining Extraordinary and Supernatural abilities, but excludes Spell-like abilities. So I'd assume that you can't use (Sp)-powers.

 

[Michael Morris]

Last time I checked Pit fiends clocked in at around 25 hit dice - and since an 18th level sorcerer can only take an 18 HD form...

 

[Campbell]

Thanks for the reminder on SLAs. It's been awhile since I've played at those levels in 3.x.

Edit: In the 3.5 MM the Pit Fiend clocks in at 18 HD.