DM Dilemma - I Need Help, ENWorld! - *UPDATED* - Putting YOUR ideas to work!

[WizarDru]

That's when narrow-wide-narrow is a great structure. I also think it works particularly well with a lot of non-fantasy genres.

It's worth noting that I often use a variation of this for many installments of a regular campaign game. I will often envision the starting point and how to kick things off and then a few plot points that I'd like to hit, up to and including a final encounter.

For example: I know from the previous session of my game that my players have been tasked with escorting a half-insane genius mage to a place called 'The Deep Library'. I know that next session, they'll find a way there, explore it and eventually end up in some combat with the library's various defenders and maybe meet the head librarian, who may be an Aboleth or maybe an awakened monitor whale or something else again. So here's how I structure that:

1) Players start at Castle White. Will investigate location of library, ways to travel there. (NOTE TO SELF: Bone up on underwater combat details!)

2) Players will have encounter at library access way with first guardians.

3) Players will explore library.

4) Players will be attacked by second set of guardians.

5) Players will eventually find Head Librarian.

6) Players will help mage obtain rituals.

7) Players will return home.


Now, that seems pretty obvious. But notice the vagueness in the layout. I don't know how the PCs are getting there...but I have presented them with two options (and I'm reasonably sure which one they'll pick).

Narrow is 'you have a mission with following parameters'. Wide is 'how do we do it?'. Narrow: Players will have combat. Wide: Players can explore the library. Narrow: Another combat. WIde: More exploring. Narrow: Players meet Head Librarian. And SO ON.

Notice also these three important, IMPORTANT rules:

1. Listen to your Players
2. Trust your players. They are SMART.
3. Be Prepared to Collapse Your Plan.

I often present my players with a challenge that I haven't actually thought of the resolution to, directly. I usually have some ideas of how to solve the problem, but I LEAVE IT TO THEM. And I LISTEN TO THEIR IDEAS. And I LET THEM CHANGE THE STORY WITHOUT THEM KNOWING IT.

Let me give you an example: In the above scenario, my plan was that they would reach the Deep Library through a particular dungeon they were aware of. Easy-Peasey. BUT, my players are SMART, remember? One player says "Don't Tell Me....we're going through the Underdark, aren't we. Man, I KNEW IT!" Another says: "The Deep Library? That's at the bottom of the Ocean? Is it in some sort of submerged city? Hey, we could use that ship the dwarves fixed up to go under the water? I wonder how deep she'll go?"

Did you see what just happened, there? They thought of two other ways to reach it that I hadn't actively considered. They figured out a course of action they could follow (research at archives, locate city, figure out if Dwarven submersible ship can work that deep). The next half-hour to hour just wrote itself in skill checks, character conversations and so forth. And now maybe there'll be a combat underwater at the submarine!

The trick here is that the players don't have to know when you've changed your plot to accommodate their ideas. To them, it's invisible. You've given them control and yet you don't have to secede control to do it. By the same token, when the session is running long, maybe you delete that combat at #2 or #4 to keep things moving....or alternately add another one to keep things exciting and lengthen the adventure. Listen to your players and see what they're enjoying.

And always, Always, ALWAYS ask players after a session if they enjoyed it and WHAT they enjoyed. Solicit suggestions for improvements and thank them for the input. Ask about pacing: was there some parts that were dull? Did someone feel like they didn't get to do anything? AGAIN? This is true for new groups and groups like mine or Piratecat's, who've been playing together for DECADES.

Remember: the ONLY BADWRONGFUN is when no one is enjoying themselves.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I often present my players with a challenge that I haven't actually thought of the resolution to, directly.

I think this is a really good idea. It has two advantages:

1) Reduces prep time. You only have to think up problems, not solutions.
2) Increases player freedom, no risk of pixel-bitching/railroading your ideal solution.

Being a GM is much easier than being a writer. A writer has to get his hero into peril (the easy part) then figure a way to get him out of it (the hard part). A GM only needs to do the first part, it's the players that have all the hard work. Weirdly they (mostly) seem to enjoy it.

 

[Someone]

Just a quick post to honestly congratulate Gloomshroud on accepting he's less than perfect, seek ways to improve himself and put these into practice. Surprisingly few people have that skill. And this thread is great also.

 

[Vanifae]

I absolutely LOVE this. I do not mean to sound conceited or trite, but this is EXACTLY the same process that I used, incorporating the ideas garnered from this discussion. That is most uncanny!

Thanks, I tend to just like to get everything I can down at first.

However, I am REALLY trying to employ those narrative ploys talked about so much here (see the post about Kill the Cutie, Big Deal, etc). These things breed plot twists, which I'm not too good at. I see you've got it down tho. Love the material! Keep on posting, friend. I'd like to see what else you come up with.

Well I suppose I can cover how I do adventures, I sort of go with the narrow-broad-narrow design as well in contrast to my campaign and overall story prep my adventure prep is pretty slim with a focus on major characters, set pieces, and the goal I hope to achieve for the session.

Adventure Design

I adopted this style from my Legend of the Five Rings game I also run. I basically focus on really two well three things, the third is somewhat 4th Edition D&D specific but I will mention it. The first thing is I write down any major characters or locations that will figure prominently in the adventure/session.

I focus on characters that I feel will have agency and affect the plot; major helpful NPCs, villains, or plot movers in the story. Invariably I will probably wing more during the session but these are people that I feel will have an impact on the story in some way even if only to serve to jumpstart or just move the plot from Point A to Point B.

An example taken from my previous outline:

[sblock]Desha: A young half-elf girl, perhaps no more than fourteen or fifteen marked for death was the only survivor of a caravan that was slaughtered by raiders. They took her used her and sold her into slavery, which is how she ended up in the slave levy. She is not much of a fighter and knows enough to put the sharp end of a dagger towards her enemy. She is from a free slave village, Tam’s Rest, and knows how to get there from this current location. She does not know much else of worth and is currently dying when the PCs find her, victim of a terrible stab wound and the necrotic energy from the Dragon. Her fate is in their hands but she will most likely die without some kind of intervention, before she expires she tells them of a safe haven and to tell her sister Sadira that she loved her.[/sblock]

A couple of things from this is that I have some background data that probably may not see the light of day but if the PCs choose to save her which is a possibility then I can fully flesh out her personality from these broad strokes. I list her because she serves a purpose of giving the PCs direction after the first encounter. The names in red are places/things I may not have described yet but are important and so I don’t want to forget them as I continue my plotting. Also I have an immediate quest I can create from this, simple one but something to draw them along to my next target. Knowing my players it may be enough.

I also do the same with locations I figure will be important:

[sblock]Muddy Oasis: Calling this location an oasis is being generous but it provides freshwater, not overly clean but enough to sustain the heroes and refill their strength and canteens. There is a single palm tree and some shrubs overlooking the muddy watering hole amidst the yellow-red wastes, the corpulent red sun blazing down on relentlessly. A small group of ssurran have claimed the oasis as their own and although not openly hostile it will take either an act of violence or one of diplomacy for the group to use the water to resupply. Considering this is the first water they may have seen in a few days, they won’t have many options.[/sblock]

In this case I use locations to set up my main set piece locations I figure will either be important for dramatic non-combat scenes or great backdrops for combat encounters; often times both. I also put locations I think will be important to the story or the characters will spend a great deal of their time in or around.

I usually have a page or two of these kinds of notes for reference. I then focus on the main encounters I like that I think will be fun, thematic and exciting. So I would probably create 3-4 encounters that I would like to do I may not actually get to them all or any of them depending on what characters do, but it gives me content to work with. So I would probably at this point focus on the initial encounter of the adventure; the battle against the templar and his guards while the Dragon is doing whatever crazy thing he is doing.

I want it to feel epic right out of the gate even if the encounter will probably be on the easy side, they won’t have any armor and access to fairly simple weapons to start with. I won’t really bore with the details but this is where I figure out the encounter make-up, terrain effects, and other stuff to make it a fun combat encounter. Once I have this done for about 3-4 encounters, also includes skill challenges, I go over my notes see if it’s all semi-consistent and I usually stop.

I am a visual person so I usually develop scenes, which is how I navigate my story is via scenes like in a movie or show. Once I have a general flow of scenes semi-pieced together I note those as well often tied to my encounters and I have a loose framework of events. I keep it flexible and I leave some holes for the player to fill in, they usually always do and I go with the flow. I guess this seems like a bunch of prep but basically to summarize I do the following:

1. I create my major characters and locations that I consider important to the goal/story I am trying to tell. I give them some info enough for me to role play them effectively and get a grasp of why they are here and what they are doing.

2. I construct encounters around scenes and try to get a general flow of events. If/then usually, cause and effect kind of flow. Keep it broad so there are a number of ways one can go from one scene to the other and even notes on what to do if one scene is skipped in favor of another; forks in the road. Generate quests.

3. Mentally prepare and piece it all together and make sure it makes semi-sense. Leave some holes for the players to fill in the gaps. Focus on keeping things flowing, using my notes to make sure it makes sense. Then it’s game on.

 

[Vanifae]

Just a quick post to honestly congratulate Gloomshroud on accepting he's less than perfect, seek ways to improve himself and put these into practice. Surprisingly few people have that skill. And this thread is great also.

I agree the design process really intrigues me and I am glad to see how others approach this issue. Also kudos to the OP on his willingness to improve it is something I strive for as well. This community thankfully has some gifted DMs.

 

[Gloomshroud]

It's worth noting that I often use a variation of this for many installments of a regular campaign game. I will often envision the starting point and how to kick things off and then a few plot points that I'd like to hit, up to and including a final encounter.

For example: I know from the previous session of my game that my players have been tasked with escorting a half-insane genius mage to a place called 'The Deep Library'. I know that next session, they'll find a way there, explore it and eventually end up in some combat with the library's various defenders and maybe meet the head librarian, who may be an Aboleth or maybe an awakened monitor whale or something else again. So here's how I structure that:

1) Players start at Castle White. Will investigate location of library, ways to travel there. (NOTE TO SELF: Bone up on underwater combat details!)

2) Players will have encounter at library access way with first guardians.

3) Players will explore library.

4) Players will be attacked by second set of guardians.

5) Players will eventually find Head Librarian.

6) Players will help mage obtain rituals.

7) Players will return home.


Now, that seems pretty obvious. But notice the vagueness in the layout. I don't know how the PCs are getting there...but I have presented them with two options (and I'm reasonably sure which one they'll pick).

Narrow is 'you have a mission with following parameters'. Wide is 'how do we do it?'. Narrow: Players will have combat. Wide: Players can explore the library. Narrow: Another combat. WIde: More exploring. Narrow: Players meet Head Librarian. And SO ON.

Notice also these three important, IMPORTANT rules:

1. Listen to your Players
2. Trust your players. They are SMART.
3. Be Prepared to Collapse Your Plan.

I often present my players with a challenge that I haven't actually thought of the resolution to, directly. I usually have some ideas of how to solve the problem, but I LEAVE IT TO THEM. And I LISTEN TO THEIR IDEAS. And I LET THEM CHANGE THE STORY WITHOUT THEM KNOWING IT.

Let me give you an example: In the above scenario, my plan was that they would reach the Deep Library through a particular dungeon they were aware of. Easy-Peasey. BUT, my players are SMART, remember? One player says "Don't Tell Me....we're going through the Underdark, aren't we. Man, I KNEW IT!" Another says: "The Deep Library? That's at the bottom of the Ocean? Is it in some sort of submerged city? Hey, we could use that ship the dwarves fixed up to go under the water? I wonder how deep she'll go?"

Did you see what just happened, there? They thought of two other ways to reach it that I hadn't actively considered. They figured out a course of action they could follow (research at archives, locate city, figure out if Dwarven submersible ship can work that deep). The next half-hour to hour just wrote itself in skill checks, character conversations and so forth. And now maybe there'll be a combat underwater at the submarine!

The trick here is that the players don't have to know when you've changed your plot to accommodate their ideas. To them, it's invisible. You've given them control and yet you don't have to secede control to do it. By the same token, when the session is running long, maybe you delete that combat at #2 or #4 to keep things moving....or alternately add another one to keep things exciting and lengthen the adventure. Listen to your players and see what they're enjoying.

And always, Always, ALWAYS ask players after a session if they enjoyed it and WHAT they enjoyed. Solicit suggestions for improvements and thank them for the input. Ask about pacing: was there some parts that were dull? Did someone feel like they didn't get to do anything? AGAIN? This is true for new groups and groups like mine or Piratecat's, who've been playing together for DECADES.

Remember: the ONLY BADWRONGFUN is when no one is enjoying themselves.

TOP NOTCH! Thank you for this sage advice!!! You let the Force flow through you. I get it! lol

 

[Gloomshroud]

Another huge thing I've picked up is that an adventure is best when broken down and subsidized. Divide and conquer, so to speak.

I've seen it from our sandbox-type DMs in the thread as well as the narrative (or railroad, as you like) ones. It REALLY was helpful to bust the idea I had up into what you all have called "broad strokes" of general information. Then you take those "broad strokes" and bust THOSE up a little too. Pretty soon, you have a whole session's worth of encounters (at least I did) and more ideas for next session!

Below I present my "finished product" which is a strange amalgamation of "formal" adventure design and my own stream-of-consciousness notes. If the tale seems to falter or break off, it's because my brain supplied the missing information. The only thing I REALLY had to do with this printout was consult the monster stat blocks, as well as some read aloud I made for general inspiration. I didn't worry overly much about grammar, and I'm presenting the actual document I used on that one-player adventure I ran. It went VERY well, though things that I had outlined were CHANGED in form (good player idea or two, I came up with a BETTER idea on the fly, etc). This was the skeleton I used to weave a tale of magic, myth and intrigue that actually WORKED for once. You'll see discrepancies, but I wanted to submit raw data. For example, there is a section where I refer to the Sword of Sellanon as a DAGGER. I didn't bother changing it because I was completely aware that it's a sword.

NB: Grateful thanks to the contributors of the artwork herein (slightly modified by yours truly) for their Commons License contributions. If you feel any of this is useful to you, by all means use it! It is as much a thing of ENWorld as it is of MINE! Also, the adventure takes place on Akara, my homebrew setting. If you'd like to view my site, certain events referred to will make more sense.

In a VERY direct way you all should note your contributions directly within the text and overlaying design. A case-in-point, in fact, is the name of the elven capital. A'uld Ruhn comes from a conglomeration of 2 ENworlders' usernames! Bonus XP if you can figure out whose they are!


View attachment Into_Auld_Ruhn.doc

 

[Vanifae]

Another huge thing I've picked up is that an adventure is best when broken down and subsidized. Divide and conquer, so to speak.

I've seen it from our sandbox-type DMs in the thread as well as the narrative (or railroad, as you like) ones. It REALLY was helpful to bust the idea I had up into what you all have called "broad strokes" of general information. Then you take those "broad strokes" and bust THOSE up a little too. Pretty soon, you have a whole session's worth of encounters (at least I did) and more ideas for next session!

Good point, I think this comes with experience as well. I know when I made adventures as a kid I tried to make them like the modules and just write a bunch of stuff I never needed and rarely actually finished them, getting bored or just not really need much of that text. Dividing and conquering I find allows you to hit those things you feel are most important and then flesh them out. Provide a framework to work from and construct the rest as needed using the narrative of the session.

Sandbox or Railroad it works equally well and also pains the broad strokes one needs to keep things on track and tell a coherent story.

I read over the document it made sense to me and I see the natural flow of events but also the fact that you provided a bunch of wiggle room in case things go awry. I liked the overall story, simple and to the point yet thematic and overall it looked fairly fun and really shows the versatility of the game system. I can see why your girlfriend had fun and once again congratulations. Keep up the good work.

The only thing I can add is to solicit critiques from your players and advice.

 

[Gloomshroud]

[sblock]

Good point, I think this comes with experience as well. I know when I made adventures as a kid I tried to make them like the modules and just write a bunch of stuff I never needed and rarely actually finished them, getting bored or just not really need much of that text. Dividing and conquering I find allows you to hit those things you feel are most important and then flesh them out. Provide a framework to work from and construct the rest as needed using the narrative of the session.

Sandbox or Railroad it works equally well and also pains the broad strokes one needs to keep things on track and tell a coherent story.

I read over the document it made sense to me and I see the natural flow of events but also the fact that you provided a bunch of wiggle room in case things go awry. I liked the overall story, simple and to the point yet thematic and overall it looked fairly fun and really shows the versatility of the game system. I can see why your girlfriend had fun and once again congratulations. Keep up the good work.

The only thing I can add is to solicit critiques from your players and advice.

[/sblock]

Thank you for your critique! Yes, I have an overarching plot I'm following. SInce I started this "newfangled" DMing, I didn't want to go TOOOOO overboard on my g/f (who had been used to riding the train) so I kept it pretty straightforward. But there is another adventure already, sprung from the same source, preparation, and brainstorming as THAT adventure in which my player will acquire a companion as WELL as advance the plot a bit deeper (there is another layer to the treachery). This again is per the suggestions of those here. The narrative naturally flows from one adventure into the next.

Naturally, I wanted to know how I'd done, so after the adventure, I played 20
questions with my girlfriend. For her part, aside from the comment she made, did NOT want to stop playing. But I ended it because I didn't want to OVERextend, and I wanted her input.

 

[Gloomshroud]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy8-NNlE80A"]I saw this in another thread. [/ame] Now, this is a video of some great gaming titans playing 4E. Ed Greenwood, R.A. Salvatore, and Larry Elmore are there. I saw the link in another thread. Yes, this is funny as all get-out ("Even in 4E Lawful Good is Lawful Stupid" ~ R.A. Salvatore), but it may also serve as a kind of "DMing In Action" kinda thing.

Chris Perkins is an EXCELLENT DM (also see the Robot Chicken guys game). He is exceptionally good at voice acting, and he adds humor in the RIGHT ways. He has a good knowledge of rules, and his pacing is impeccable. There is a lot to be garnered from watching this aside from a barrel of laughs!