DM experience with dragons

[Ryujin]

How to make dragon encounters memorable.

- make them L+2 encounters
- make it tough to even get to the dragon's lair
- don't trivialize it as "the dragon of the week" encounters
- make the treasure, from the encounter, at least partially come from the dragon's body; bathing in its blood or eating its heart instills the power of a magical tattoo (there are stories and legends that talk of this sort of thing)

 

[Gryph]

I used to play with a group like this, really one guy in the group, but still the same problem.

I changed 2 things to help combat it. First, I haven't given out a bag of holding in 20 years.

Second, I've established that dragon's are about hordes. If the dragon is killed away from the lair, they are more worried about finding the horde then rendering the carcass. If the dragon is in or near its lair, they are trying to figure out how to get the thousands of silver pieces, decorative armor, gold statues, etc back to someplace they can sell it. Handling huge treasure hordes is the one place where I ruthlessly follow the encumberance/carrying capacity rules.

Between these two factors, my players are too busy trying to get the more easily disposed of treasure home to do more than take a souvenir or two off the dragon body.

 

[marelion]

-Don`t use Dragons who still use the old math. Did it once when I was new to 4E and the encounter was as thrilling as watching grass grow.

-Give your dragon unique powers and build their horde into the encounters. Dragons-by-the-book don`t pull off a lot of tricks besides roasting everyone in a defined blast and piercing their claws into the fighters. Especialy low-level dragons to me seem boring as hell.

When I put my group against a young iron Dragon his horde was completely filled with mountains of copper coins. Whenever the dragon unleashed his fury in a breath attack the copper coins created a lightning echo, unloading onto the first target to touch them/walk on the square with a coin mountain on it. Evil GMs gotta love conductive metals And on a positive note, you also have a use for all the pennies eating up space in your purse

And like in any good bossfight include some interactive terrain for the solo and your players to abuse. Dragons are rather weak on the forced movement-side of powers, but since you`re the GM you`re free to modell them to your liking, right?

Other than that, my players frequently skin dragons, take their claws or chop off their heads. Last time we played they even took the eggs of one with them. The sorcerer in my group hopes to get the hatchlings trained to be his apprentices someday... And I want to best honest, I`m fine with my players looting solo monsters. Being a hero is about gathering trophies, for what proof of your deeds would you have, if it were not for those trophies?

Every action has its consequences and slaying a dragon should never be easy but always feel rewarding. Notorious dragon slayers normally get slain by more powerful dragons or their hired blades. Dragon slayers get noticed for their deeds and spreading cash around might well attract thieves and bandits. And never forget about the humanoid allies of a dragon and their networks. And the whole trophy-gathering has some roleplaying hooks as well. Maybe the reputation of the heroes inspires bards to sing of their deeds or maybe a young, galant, yet cowardly noble asks for a piece of the treasure to finally win the heart of a loved one who despises him for his cowardice.

And if you are worried about the item power level, it is in your best intentions to let it scale. My group killed a dragon who was level 6, the armor the paladin is going to get forged is level 8 and she is not going to receive it before level 6/7. Forging weapons and armor takes time and finding a smith who will work on fresh, raw dragon scales is always worth a skill challenge. And it is within your rights as a DM to reduce the treasury found in his horde by a reasonable amount to make sure the heros don`t gain too much benefit from slaying dragons.

And btw, if your dragons look and end like the one on the picture, you know you`re doing it wrong

 

[Netherstorm]

I think I agree with the idea of making the total value of the scales/organs/etc. part of the treasure parcel. So then, if the PCs don't harvest, they're actually shorting themselves on the total treasure.

Also, there's an issue of dragon magazine from the 3e days that has a fantastic article on harvesting dragon corpses.

It's Dragon #332, "Cutting up the Dragon". It is full of cool ideas, like making a dragonbone boat that can use the dragon's breath weapon once a day.

 

[Vael]

Dragons aren't just pigs, they're elemental creatures made flesh. The reason that Dragon parts are so valuable is not just that it's hard to kill a dragon, but safely taking a trophy from the corpse without the magical backlash becomes increasingly difficult. The more you butcher a dragon's corpse, the more likely a backlash will happen. One or two trophies are easy, the rest is quite difficult.

 

[Riastlin]

How to make dragon encounters memorable.

- make them L+2 encounters
- make it tough to even get to the dragon's lair
- don't trivialize it as "the dragon of the week" encounters
- make the treasure, from the encounter, at least partially come from the dragon's body; bathing in its blood or eating its heart instills the power of a magical tattoo (there are stories and legends that talk of this sort of thing)

One thing I might add to this is make the dragon a recurring villain. Perhaps the first time they see the dragon, the fight is an a relatively open area and well out of sight of its lair (i.e. the PCs have no idea where it lairs). But remember that dragons are highly intelligent, so when the dragon is bloodied, it flies off to fight another day.

Now, the dragon is a bit annoyed at the PCs, so it sets up an ambush some time later (i.e. this could be several sessions or even levels later -- dragons are patient after all). Now the terrain is definitely in the dragon's favor, but the fight still isn't in its lair. When the PCs bloody it yet again, the dragon once again takes flight and retreats.

Now, the dragon realizes that the PCs are more than just typical meddling adventurers. They actually pose a real threat to the dragon. The dragon starts hiring mercenaries and assassins to rid it of the problem the PCs have become. Most importantly though, the dragon realizes that it really doesn't want to get caught off guard by the PCs, so it spends more and more time in its lair -- and making sure that the lair is absolutely set up to the dragon's advantage. Eventually, the PCs will track the dragon down. They'll have a full on adventure getting through all the cultists and traps just to reach the lair. When they do reach the dragon though, she is extremely ticked and desperate and likely still has body guards in her lair. This fight becomes the knock down, drag out fight to the death the PCs have been waiting for (unless you want to be really evil and still let the dragon escape out the emergency exit).

In short, the PCs will have to fight the dragon at least 3 times before getting the chance to carve her up. They'll "hate" you each time she retreats, but when they do finally get the kill, it will be all the sweeter.

Edit to add: The thing that I really like about this approach is that if you space the fights out over several levels, it gives you the opportunity to level up the dragon each time. This way, the party gets the chance to fight several versions of the Red Dragon (i.e. different age categories) without making it seem as though dragons are a dime a dozen.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think dragons work best as unique, major, campaign-altering villains.

Dragons aren't just sitting in their lairs waiting for people to come along and kill them. They're the most powerful creatures in the world. They ACT. Others are forced to react.

Find out what your dragons want, and then move them to achieve that. Adventure follows nearly automatically in their wake.

• White Dragons want power. They fight brutally and angrily to achieve this power over others, to crush their enemies, to see them driven before them, and to hear the lamentations of their women. They set themselves up as despotic rulers and continually expand their empires, crushing opposition when it arises. They are rampaging barbarians, and they descend on unprotected villages with near-impunity.
• Black Dragons want death. They don't worry much about authority or loyalty -- they'd prefer to sicken and kill others, weakening them, crippling them, and ultimately killing them. Sure, they might have the occasional reptilian cult, but this cult is bestial and ever-hungry, seeking death just as the dragon does, so that rotting bogs can spring up in the wake of the empty fields and towns.
• Green Dragons want control. They want to be loved and worshiped and honored above all. They are vain and self-important, brooking no possible acknowledgement of their weaknesses or flaws. They want to look out over a sea of devoted sycophants, rather than a fleeing army or a field of dead and rotting bodies.
• Blue Dragons want knowledge. They crave the arcane mysteries of the world, lost history, and forgotten ideas. They delight in having secrets no other creature has: the better to use these secrets against their enemies, to achieve dominance, and to be honored and respected. They would much rather be the power behind the throne than on the throne itself, and they would much rather keep their own agenda hidden then reveal their hand.
• Red Dragons want wealth. The great treasuries and deep vaults of the world are theirs, and they will pursue them with the intensity and relentlessness of a man with a vendetta, and guard their hoards with a miser's
  attention to detail. Obsessive, they can't tolerate others having coin, gems, or even works of art -- though they only appreciate these for the material wealth it brings, for how much others would kill and debase themselves to get their hands on it.

So, with this kind of concept, you have White Dragons rampaging across the countryside in perhaps-seasonal wanderings of destruction. You have Black Dragons spreading disease and illness far and wide from their swampy stations, only to visit villages decimated by plague, and finish them off. You have green dragons leading cults in the thick forests, people who would do anything for their draconic god. You have blue dragons in hidden lairs protected by powerful illusions, empowering desert raiders and would-be emperors without getting their own hands dirty. You have red dragons sitting atop hoards of coins and treasure, seeking out the rarest and most precious of things, simply to own them, either through agents or directly.

Those dragons are active, powerful forces in the world!

 

[Stalker0]

Here's my question to the OP, is it the butchering of the dragon that's the problem.....or is it that the PCs are beating your dragons too easily?

If its the latter, while I haven't gotten to see the Monster vault dragons in action, they certainly look nastier than the MM1 variety.