DM Intervention

[DonTadow]

I was hoping to gain the advice of the RPG world to see how or even if I should approach this issue.

Background
I have a really good friend who has recently moved back to town. Like me, he is a DM at heart and told me well ahead of his move he wanted to run a game when he got back. Initially we were suppose to both alternate our games on Sundays, but his scheduling and mine made it so he began his game on Wednsdays. We share the same friend pool, so most of his players are also in my game. I was suppose to be in his Wednesday game, but a 45 minute drive in the middle of the work week wouldn't work for me. We had a small falling out because of a disagreement at a recent con and the distance of his game. (I thought it would be easier for us and the other players if he switched the game to our house (which is a midway point for most of the players or a friends house, also a midway point). It escalated to a my campaign or his campaign thing. We essentially stopped being children and talked it out. We have pretty much the same players in our groups now and are back to being friends and we got past that and we're back cool again.

The problem
my wife did decide to join the game from the beginning. After 8 sessions she permanently dropped from the game. This happened after the party's 3rd TPK. Since she has left, he has TPK'd the party an additional 2 times.

My wife notes this as the main reason she dropped. Dying was not fun. The campaign is not structured for the players playing. I have DM'd for these guys for years, and I know following a module to the letter will probably get that group killed without scaling it for the type of fun they like. Two of the players, still in my campaign, have voiced that concern as well. The main thing that comes up is that his DM style, which i have experienced in a few one shots, is too rigid. He usually has an ending in my of how things are suppose to end, and your character dies if he can't get there. This is near opposite of one of the players play style, in that he frequently likes to do his own thing.

The problem comes in if I should talk to him about it and if so what to say?. I am not apart of the game. My wife is no longer apart of the game. He has DM'd this way for years, but never with this group here. I want my friend's campaign to succeed. I know these players, I know how to reign them in. However, we just got back on good terms from the whole blowup in the Background, I wonder if it is my place. After the 4th TPK I thought about talking to him, but now they are on their 5th TPK in 12 sessions and 3rd campaign reset.

 

[Morrus]

Why not approach is more as a conversation with your friend over DMing issues and styles, without making it about him, specifically?

I remember a few years ago I was at [MENTION=2]Piratecat[/MENTION]'s house and we were discussing some DMing issues. We weren't talking about us or him, it was just a conversation that we happened to be having because - hey - we all love RPGs. During the conversation he mentioned that he always tried to say "yes" to his players, no matter what they wanted to do. That stuck with me, and to this day I try to do that (I'm sure he didn't mean to provide a mini moment of revelation, but sometimes it's the small things which improve your game).

So you could just hang out with your friend as normal, an chat about D&D (which I imagine you probably do already) and just discuss DMing as a subject. You never know what might come out of it!

 

[Kzach]

In my opinion, the DM runs his game, his way; if the players don't like that, then nobody is forcing them to keep turning up to the sessions.

A lot of people will cry foul at this and say, "But no, the DM has to CATER to the PLAYERS!" Yeah, whatever. The DM does a thousand times more work to make a game happen than does a player and then players do nothing but complain and whine about how they aren't getting what they want. How about, "Thanks DM for putting hours and hours and hours into your games for us so that we can all hang around and enjoy the results that are watered down to about 10 hours prep for one hour of gaming! You're awesome!"? Hmm? How about that?

People seem perversely focused on their own enjoyment and forget that the DM is a PLAYER as well. Only for the game to even happen, he's the only player that has to put in any actual effort and then at game time, he is STILL having to do fifty times more than any one single player. Do you think he gets fifty times the reward or benefit or fun out of games? It's easy to criticise a DM and yet I find the most vocal players are also the ones who either don't step up to the DM chair, or can't.

So instead of complaining, how about trying to adapt to HIS style instead of forcing him to adapt to yours?

 

[IronWolf]

I would tend towards Morrus' approach. Just have a conversation with him. You don't have to be hard on his DMing style, just talk about DMing styles and player fun. You are likely going to be able to pick up whether he thinks everyone is having fun with the game and just oblivious to the issues he is about to face or if he just doesn't care. It seems conversation worthy, but not conflict worthy.

 

[Mark CMG]

The problem comes in if I should talk to him about it and if so what to say?. I am not apart of the game. My wife is no longer apart of the game. (. . .) I wonder if it is my place.

Nope. Tell the other players to take thier complaints of the other DM to the other DM. Especially given your history, micromanaging his campaign is inappropriate. (I'm guessing the convention dust up might have been during your Iron DM event? Cool event, btw.) There's no sense in adding to the previous tension. Plus, he needs to know that others have their own opinions and that not everyone speaks only through you. If you were actually having a casual conversation and something similar came up, that would be one thing, but manufacturing a conversation and steering it toward the problematic subject is not only going to seem like meddling, it is actual meddling. Inform the other players that this is their nut to crack. You might give them some advice if they ask for it, but only if they ask when you turn down the middleman gig.

 

[catsclaw227]

My wife notes this as the main reason she dropped. Dying was not fun. The campaign is not structured for the players playing. I have DM'd for these guys for years, and I know following a module to the letter will probably get that group killed without scaling it for the type of fun they like. Two of the players, still in my campaign, have voiced that concern as well.

Have the players in the other game specifically asked if you would step in and say something?

I agree with Mark CMG that this isn't your nut to crack and stepping in may be meddling where you weren't asked to meddle. I understand the desire to make other people happy, especially if they are your players as well, but I recommend you kindly tell your players that it isn't your place to say anything. If you empathize with them, let them know, but I'd stay out. And don't try to influence the opinions of the players. Meddling from the outside is even worse. Try to stay neutral.

Are the other players, outside of the two that voiced concern, having a good time?

 

[the Jester]

The problem comes in if I should talk to him about it and if so what to say?. I am not apart of the game. My wife is no longer apart of the game.

Then it is no longer any of your business. All you'll do by speaking up is further strain your relationship with him. His players should discuss their concerns with him; if he's unwilling to acknowledge them, they can always walk away from the table (much as your wife already has).

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Another vote for minding your own business. Much as you might WANT to intervene for whatever reasons you just don't have any standing to interfere. If nobobdy has directly asked for your assistance or opinion stay out of it. If his players ask you to intervene you should STILL stay out of it. Tell them it is THEIR issue to resolve with him - not yours. Your history with your friend only makes it more important that you leave this issue alone.

 

[Halivar]

Only once have I seen a DM completely reinvent himself. Usually, a DM is going to run the game they want. Making them run otherwise will make them, and the players miserable. That being said, if the very nature of that DM's game is making you miserable, it's probably time to move on.

I'll also throw out that, IMHO, having 5 TPK's in 12 sessions is just terrible DM'ing, unless it's a survival horror game. I would invite him to play; but I would not invite him to DM.

 

[korjik]

I was hoping to gain the advice of the RPG world to see how or even if I should approach this issue.

Background
I have a really good friend who has recently moved back to town. Like me, he is a DM at heart and told me well ahead of his move he wanted to run a game when he got back. Initially we were suppose to both alternate our games on Sundays, but his scheduling and mine made it so he began his game on Wednsdays. We share the same friend pool, so most of his players are also in my game. I was suppose to be in his Wednesday game, but a 45 minute drive in the middle of the work week wouldn't work for me. We had a small falling out because of a disagreement at a recent con and the distance of his game. (I thought it would be easier for us and the other players if he switched the game to our house (which is a midway point for most of the players or a friends house, also a midway point). It escalated to a my campaign or his campaign thing. We essentially stopped being children and talked it out. We have pretty much the same players in our groups now and are back to being friends and we got past that and we're back cool again.

The problem
my wife did decide to join the game from the beginning. After 8 sessions she permanently dropped from the game. This happened after the party's 3rd TPK. Since she has left, he has TPK'd the party an additional 2 times.

My wife notes this as the main reason she dropped. Dying was not fun. The campaign is not structured for the players playing. I have DM'd for these guys for years, and I know following a module to the letter will probably get that group killed without scaling it for the type of fun they like. Two of the players, still in my campaign, have voiced that concern as well. The main thing that comes up is that his DM style, which i have experienced in a few one shots, is too rigid. He usually has an ending in my of how things are suppose to end, and your character dies if he can't get there. This is near opposite of one of the players play style, in that he frequently likes to do his own thing.

The problem comes in if I should talk to him about it and if so what to say?. I am not apart of the game. My wife is no longer apart of the game. He has DM'd this way for years, but never with this group here. I want my friend's campaign to succeed. I know these players, I know how to reign them in. However, we just got back on good terms from the whole blowup in the Background, I wonder if it is my place. After the 4th TPK I thought about talking to him, but now they are on their 5th TPK in 12 sessions and 3rd campaign reset.

You might ask him why his parties keep dying, but make sure you do not get into the middle of this. This is a problem for his players, not for you. If he is not receptive to discussing his game, do not push him about it.