DM Needs Help!

[Gloomshroud]

Ahhh! I'm smashing my face against my desk in exasperation. Having a hard time discovering the information I need.

1.) How do you determine "party level" as it relates to building encounters (i.e. what XP budget am I shooting for, what is my Target Encounter XP based on my party level, etc)? Is it like 3.x where it's the average of all the levels?

2.) Is it just me, or are level one encounters not done very well? It seems that the encounter balance mentioned in the DMG p. 56 (Step 1. Choose an encounter level) is IMPOSSIBLE at level one unless you're using straight MINIONS. How do you make an "easy" encounter (one or two levels lower than partly level) when level one is as low as monsters go??

Now, I would like a little variety at level 1 other than just tossing minions until level 2. I've seen some elegant solutions, but what were the designers' original intents with this?

3.) I'll be working with 2 party members during a playtest. What is my Target XP Budget/Reward (as presented on p. 57)? I'm having a hard time pulling it together without the above 2 questions being answered. I know that I am to look for the "XP value for a standard monster of the encounter's level" and "multiply it by the # of characters." That's well and good, but I need the answers to #1 and #2 before I can answer #3.

Thanks in advance!

 

[MerricB]

Ahhh! I'm smashing my face against my desk in exasperation. Having a hard time discovering the information I need.

1.) How do you determine "party level" as it relates to building encounters (i.e. what XP budget am I shooting for, what is my Target Encounter XP based on my party level, etc)? Is it like 3.x where it's the average of all the levels?

Average Party level works. Or you could add together the standard XP for each character level and use it as a base budget.

2.) Is it just me, or are level one encounters not done very well? It seems that the encounter balance mentioned in the DMG p. 56 (Step 1. Choose an encounter level) is IMPOSSIBLE at level one unless you're using straight MINIONS. How do you make an "easy" encounter (one or two levels lower than partly level) when level one is as low as monsters go??

Use fewer monsters. Three level 1 monsters vs. a five-member level 1 party is a pretty easy encounter.

3.) I'll be working with 2 party members during a playtest. What is my Target XP Budget/Reward (as presented on p. 57)? I'm having a hard time pulling it together without the above 2 questions being answered. I know that I am to look for the "XP value for a standard monster of the encounter's level" and "multiply it by the # of characters." That's well and good, but I need the answers to #1 and #2 before I can answer #3.

Erm... a level 1 standard monster is worth 100 XP. You have a 200 XP budget for a standard encounter. Although the rules don't specify "easy" for that level of encounter, just one monster would be easy or very easy to fight.

Cheers!

 

[Gloomshroud]

First of all, THANK YOU! Second of all, you are all OVER these boards, MerricB! LOL! How do you DO it?

Average Party level works. Or you could add together the standard XP for each character level and use it as a base budget.

Yay for APL! And where do I find this "standard XP for each Character level?"

Use fewer monsters. Three level 1 monsters vs. a five-member level 1 party is a pretty easy encounter.

I agree! However, I am looking not only for more "bang for the buck," but also variety.

Erm... a level 1 standard monster is worth 100 XP. You have a 200 XP budget for a standard encounter. Although the rules don't specify "easy" for that level of encounter, just one monster would be easy or very easy to fight.

Cheers!

Awesome. That makes sense. Thank you x 10^23

 

[MerricB]

Yay for APL! And where do I find this "standard XP for each Character level?"

I possibly should have written it as "Standard Monster XP for each character level" or somesuch. Somewhere in the DMG is a table that shows the XP you get for each monster. The system is balanced with each character fighting an equivalent level monster, so if you have a 1st level PC and a 2nd level PC, find the XP for a 1st level monster and a 2nd level monster and add them together.

It should be noted that a "standard" fight isn't really that hard: Experienced players will win them except in exceptional circumstances. Inexperienced players will find it tougher, just because they don't know the best tactics yet.

Oh, and playing with just two PCs tends to be not as easy to predict as with five PCs, so watch out for that.

Cheers!

 

[Cormacolinde]

1.) How do you determine "party level" as it relates to building encounters (i.e. what XP budget am I shooting for, what is my Target Encounter XP based on my party level, etc)? Is it like 3.x where it's the average of all the levels?

4e is designed with the idea that everyone in the party should be the same level.

2.) Is it just me, or are level one encounters not done very well? It seems that the encounter balance mentioned in the DMG p. 56 (Step 1. Choose an encounter level) is IMPOSSIBLE at level one unless you're using straight MINIONS. How do you make an "easy" encounter (one or two levels lower than partly level) when level one is as low as monsters go??

A normal 5-member level 1 party would have an encounter target xp of 500xp. That's 5 level 1 monsters, or 2 level 2 monsters and 1 level 1 monster. You have a lot of options. PCs can fight monsters of n+1 or n+2 level very easily. An easy encounter would be 2-300xp, so 2-3 level 1 monsters.

It's normal that your options are a bit more limited at those levels, but they go by fast.

Also, I do NOT recommend giving your group encounters lower than their level, such encounters are usually easy enough, lower level encounters are rather boring and not very challenging.

3.) I'll be working with 2 party members during a playtest. What is my Target XP Budget/Reward (as presented on p. 57)? I'm having a hard time pulling it together without the above 2 questions being answered. I know that I am to look for the "XP value for a standard monster of the encounter's level" and "multiply it by the # of characters." That's well and good, but I need the answers to #1 and #2 before I can answer #3.

Having such a small group does make things harder. Your expected xp is 200xp, so 2 level 1 monsters would be a fair fight in theory.

Also understand that 4e is not so much about individually difficult fights, but more about managing your resources during the day. A typical day should consist of 4-6 encounters, with a mix of skill challenges and fights, but sometimes you can stretch this. I recently did a very long day with 12 total encounters, it was pretty epic but they pulled through.

What I mean is that a single fight is easy. It's when your players have to consider multiple fights and have to manage their resources well enough to make it through the day that it becomes interesting. Killing off a dragon when using all your dailies is easy. But if you have to kill 4 other groups of monsters to get out of the cave with the treasure without dailies, you might run out of surges because the fights are too challenging without the additional power the dailies can give you.

 

[Gloomshroud]

Genius! That answers my questions thoroughly and completely! Thank you SOOOO much! Now, my next question: I've only recently gotten into 4E. I understand there've been MULTIPLE rule changes, additions, and errata published. Is there a single source where I can get the most up to date information? Sadly, I cannot afford DDi and my only internet access is here at work. So that's out.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Genius! That answers my questions thoroughly and completely! Thank you SOOOO much! Now, my next question: I've only recently gotten into 4E. I understand there've been MULTIPLE rule changes, additions, and errata published. Is there a single source where I can get the most up to date information? Sadly, I cannot afford DDi and my only internet access is here at work. So that's out.

The D&D Rules compendium will be released this fall.

 

[Smoke Jaguar]

What do you have against minions? When I think about a brand new adventuring party, I think new and kind of inexperienced. They would be going against minions more than anything. It is your adventure, so whatever works for you and gets you excited.

As far as budget, there are others out there much smart than I. I don't know how to upload excel spreadsheets. I found a pretty useful one. Google: 4E Encounter Generator Excel Spreadsheet and you should be able to find it. It allows you to put in the number of PC's and their Level. It outputs your target EXP. You can then enter in what monsters you want for your encounter and it adds up your spent EXP. Very useful tool.

 

[Gloomshroud]

What do you have against minions? When I think about a brand new adventuring party, I think new and kind of inexperienced. They would be going against minions more than anything. It is your adventure, so whatever works for you and gets you excited.

As far as budget, there are others out there much smart than I. I don't know how to upload excel spreadsheets. I found a pretty useful one. Google: 4E Encounter Generator Excel Spreadsheet and you should be able to find it. It allows you to put in the number of PC's and their Level. It outputs your target EXP. You can then enter in what monsters you want for your encounter and it adds up your spent EXP. Very useful tool.

Good resource! I found it! Looks great! THANK YOU!

 

[OnlineDM]

As far as rules updates go, those are freely available on the Wizards of the Coast site - you don't need DDI.

The document with all of the updates is at this link. And if you want the page that has the updates broken out by book, that's here.