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D&D (2024) "No magic items are necessary" vs Magic Items Awarded by Level
- Thread starter evilbob
- Start date
evilbob
Adventurer
I had forgotten about the DMG 5.0 table. That does not sync up well with the DMG 5.5 Magic Items Awarded by Level table.
Also the more I look at that 5.5 table, the more confusing it becomes. It's not really a good guide for how many items a character might start with, or how many they'd have at a point in time. It is really only for how many items a party might get awarded over a ~5 level span.
Ferrousbones
Artificer
There is also the 5.5 Starting at Higher Levels rules.
Ferrousbones
Artificer
There are limited rules in the 5.5e (2024) PHB.
The 2024 DMG expands those by listing what tools are required for each kind of item (for example: "Tinker's Tools or the tool required to make the nonmagical item on which the magic item is based" for Wondrous items), as well as listing the percentage chance of finding materials for crafting based on where you are, and the time + gold cost per rarity. It also makes it clear that those costs don't include the costs for the base item (such as a staff or plate armor).
So, it looks like the game expects players to craft potions of healing & spell scrolls, but leaves it up to the DM if the players can craft any other magic items.
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Ferrousbones
Artificer
Bacon Bits
Legend
"Magic items are not necessary," is kind of a confused idea in the community. Somehow it got interpreted my some people as "you should not give out magic items."
Magic items are necessary. They're one of the most important player rewards in the game. They're in-universe, tangible, often unique rewards that can include directly relevant narrative elements. They can be hooks. They can be MacGuffins. They can be campaign lynchpins. DMs are 100% expected to give out magic items in essentially every campaign. They are both too much fun and too much in line with the fiction of fantasy settings to not have magic items.
Magic items are only "not necessary" in the sense that there aren't really any creatures that say, "You must have +2 magic weapons or greater to be able to damage this creature." There aren't any creatures that say, "DR 50/+5". The designers didn't take the Proficiency Bonus off the class progression chart, split it in half, and then stick the other half of the bonus on attribute-enhancing magic items that you have to go out and find. Monsters don't have such overwhelming attack bonuses that, without magical armor bonuses, a character in full plate and shield would still be hit by 85% of attacks. Those are the designs from prior editions that made magic items necessary in those editions. The mechanics of the game in-and-of themselves demanded and required that players have magical gear in order to participate in the game at a very basic level.
Instead, in 5e when you're a level 20 Fighter and you pick up a +1 longsword, you are benefiting from a magic item reward. You are better than the design of the game assumes you are capable of achieving even by having the lowliest items in the game. That doesn't mean you should only give out +1 longsword. It means the reward you earned at level 5 is still able to benefit you in real mechanical ways at level 20. There is no mechanical expiration date on your magic item rewards. They helped you a lot when you go them, and they will be just as helpful for the rest of the game.
Magic items are necessary. They're one of the most important player rewards in the game. They're in-universe, tangible, often unique rewards that can include directly relevant narrative elements. They can be hooks. They can be MacGuffins. They can be campaign lynchpins. DMs are 100% expected to give out magic items in essentially every campaign. They are both too much fun and too much in line with the fiction of fantasy settings to not have magic items.
Magic items are only "not necessary" in the sense that there aren't really any creatures that say, "You must have +2 magic weapons or greater to be able to damage this creature." There aren't any creatures that say, "DR 50/+5". The designers didn't take the Proficiency Bonus off the class progression chart, split it in half, and then stick the other half of the bonus on attribute-enhancing magic items that you have to go out and find. Monsters don't have such overwhelming attack bonuses that, without magical armor bonuses, a character in full plate and shield would still be hit by 85% of attacks. Those are the designs from prior editions that made magic items necessary in those editions. The mechanics of the game in-and-of themselves demanded and required that players have magical gear in order to participate in the game at a very basic level.
Instead, in 5e when you're a level 20 Fighter and you pick up a +1 longsword, you are benefiting from a magic item reward. You are better than the design of the game assumes you are capable of achieving even by having the lowliest items in the game. That doesn't mean you should only give out +1 longsword. It means the reward you earned at level 5 is still able to benefit you in real mechanical ways at level 20. There is no mechanical expiration date on your magic item rewards. They helped you a lot when you go them, and they will be just as helpful for the rest of the game.
evilbob
Adventurer
That also does not sync up well - unless you consider only the tier before, and then it is close.
For example, the PHB gives an example for a character starting level 11-16 which equals about 1 party member's share of the loot awarded from levels 5-10 in the DMG. This would make sense for level 11, but not 16. Also it doesn't account for levels 2-4. The 17-20 also only seems to account for loot from 11-16. I feel like the numbers were just sort of made up with a general idea in mind, and nothing is really calculated per se. Which is fine! It's just a guide, I get that. And it means it's more of a point of reference than a rule. Hence my question for what others are doing.
Horwath
Legend
Since we still do not have any decent options of special materials for weapons/armors or better crafting method for bonuses(masterwork/elvencraft/dwarvencraft), I see +1/+2/+3 weapons and armors as just better crafting quality and nothing really special about them.
flaming sword is a magic weapons, +1 sword is just better crafted.
flaming sword is a magic weapons, +1 sword is just better crafted.
GrimCo
Hero
No magic items necessary just means you don't need them for game math to work and monster design is balanced around party not having any ( hence, no crazy numbers, very few monsers immune to damage from non magic weapons).
On the other hand, magic items are fun as in, they give tangible improvements to your characters power. Better damage, better protections, new abilities etc.
How many to give? Depends. I never bothered with those tables and guidelines. I give them based on what i feel is cool and appropriate for characters in given moment.
On the other hand, magic items are fun as in, they give tangible improvements to your characters power. Better damage, better protections, new abilities etc.
How many to give? Depends. I never bothered with those tables and guidelines. I give them based on what i feel is cool and appropriate for characters in given moment.
evilbob
Adventurer
Thanks everyone for the replies so far. I think this thread could be summarized as such:
If anyone else wants to share their experience, especially with number of items in tier 3 or 4 games, I'm happy to hear it.
- Of the few people who responded with specific numbers, several gave out fewer than the guidelines in the DMG, and that worked for them.
- One person pointed out that thanks to the attunement rules, there is already a heavy constraint on items and it's difficult to go too far. (I've noticed that the 2024 rules gave attunement requirements to more go-to items, like the broom of flying.)
- Most people had extremely limited experience with campaigns up to 15, and no one who responded went past that.
If anyone else wants to share their experience, especially with number of items in tier 3 or 4 games, I'm happy to hear it.
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