DM, Players, rules as "guidance" or infallible?

[PissyPeter]

I have a general question and would appreciate the feedback of Dungeon Masters.

As a DM, I have always viewed the rules as optional. I.E. if I want to make a demon who can cast a spell as a free action and attack in melee - I am allowed to do so - the rules are suggestions only; I may tweak as I see fit.

I ask, because I believe I am an overall fair DM and very open to player questions and discussions concerning my style and rulings - yet, I believe I am not "bound" by every tiddle and taddle of the rules. If I want a vampire to be a particularly ancient one that drains 3 levels a hit - I can simply do so as long as it fits.... correct?

I realize this is broad... but I tend to run many monsters "as is (are?)" in the MM1-3/FF etc. but also like to spice it up (I have players who can quote the statistics, abilities etc. of just about every frikkin' monster *without* having to look them up - books other than the PH are not allowed during play)....

Anyways, I would appreciate some general feedback from seasoned DMs and how they balance their own house rules/changes/rulings on the fly (concerning monsters especially and their abilities....)

A final example: I had decided to change demons so they can teleport as a free move-action. I realize this makes them incredibly hard to melee with.... but I thought that demons were supposed to be incredibly hard? As it is, they can cast spells at will but as an entire round action - which means one demon (Glabrezu vs. 6 12th level characters) seems to hardly stand a chance unless I create a tactical situation - in the encounter it was a random summoning described in a Dungeon mag module - with the demon appearing in an enclosed hallway.... Does it seem outrageous to change some of its spells to free actions/quickened?

Thx,

PP

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I think you're addressing two different questions.

The first is whether or not we-the-DMs use the rules-as-written, rather than deviating from them in certain circumstances.

The second is whether we-the-DMs feel free to add to the rules, or to create new rules.

For the first, I'm much happier and less stressed now that I've trimmed my six-page house rules document down to four simple house rules. Generally speaking, if a rule exists for a certain situation, I use the rule.

But for the second, I think any DM has to feel free to create or modify monsters. DMing, although a lot of work, is also supposed to be fun, and this kind of activity is (hopefully) fun for us. If you want to change the abilities of demons in your world, you should absolutely feel free to do so. (Note that this is different from changing the abilities of a given demon, on the fly. While you should also feel free to do that, this is closer to the first situation, and not the type of thing I usually do.)

 

[Mouseferatu]

As the DM, and so long as the players are having fun, you have the right to change whatever you want.

You should, of course, be aware that those changes have repurcussions. For instance, letting demons teleport like that gives them an incredible advantage. They're not just "hard" to beat, it can be almost impossible under all but optimal circumstances. You should bump up their CR substantially, and use them as melee combatants in only the toughest fights.

But assuming you're aware of the fact that you're creating a ripple effect--and are prepared to change things down the road, if you realize you've altered something you didn't mean to--do whatever makes you and the players happy.

 

[Jack Simth]

Monsters are always open to being customized critters - shucks, there's a whole section on doing so, one of the listed things for changing the CR is adding abilities - and there are ways to make a spell like ability a free action, even by the book (there's a feat for it, and you could also make a spell-like ability out of a metamagiced spell) or a move action (check out the Psionics section of the SRD - Augmenting Dimension Door lets you manifest it as a move action, rather than a standard - no particular reason this can't be applied to a Greater Teleport spell-like ability).

Also, if you have trouble with players who know the standard critters by heart, enforce knoweledge checks for the player's character to know anything about it (e.g., a Knoweledge(The Planes) roll to get one or two of the abilities common to all demons, or one or two of the abilities common to this particular type of demon) both making sure they keep their character's actions in character and giving the player some knoweledge of current customizations you made on the critters on a good roll.

 

[spunky_mutters]

As long as you're consistent and reward the players appropriately for challenges faced, they'll probably appreciate being challenged.

 

[FireLance]

Let me add on to what spunky_mutters said.

If you're going to change a creature's abilities, especially on the fly, you should ask yourself two questions:

1. Is the altered creature still an appropriate challenge for your players?
2. Are you giving the players an appropriate reward for the challenge presented by your altered creature?

A bearded devil (normally CR 5) who can cast fireball as a free action in addition to its other attacks could quickly overwhelm most 5th-level parties, especially if they are unprepared for or unaware of its special abilities. A vampire that drains an additional level will be a tougher opponent than a standard vampire, but if the players already know they will be facing a vampire, they should be prepared to counter energy drain attacks, and so the extra drain will be an unpleasant but probably not deadly surprise.

If you players do manage to defeat your altered creature, they should also get more of a reward in terms of XP or treasure (or both) than for defeating a standard creature of its kind (assuming you modified it to be tougher, of course). Giving a bearded devil the ability to cast fireball as a free action might increase its CR to 7 or 8 if he could do it every round. If he can only do it once per day, it might be better to price it separately as if it was a CR 4 trap and add it to the experience gained from defeating the bearded devil. Since the extra energy drain may not be such a significant increase in ability for a vampire, a small increase in the XP award, say by 10% or 25%, might be reasonable.

One final point. A creature's CR is already a rough measure of how tough it is to beat. A glabrezu (CR 13) is supposed to be an appropriate challenge for a party of four 13th-level characters, meaning the party should be able to defeat it after expending 25% of their resources (spells, daily use abilities, hit points, etc). It is a slightly tougher encounter for a party of four 12th-level characters, but they should still be able to defeat it. In the example you mentioned, you had a glabrezu facing six 12th-level characters. I'm not surprised that they managed to defeat it, perhaps too easily for your tastes. If you wanted to have a tougher fight, you could give it class levels (say, two levels of Fighter or Barbarian, making it CR 15) or add another glabrezu or use a more powerful demon such as a nalfeshnee (CR 14).

 

[irdeggman]

as has already been pointed out - make sure you adjust the CR accordingly.

And make sure your rules/mechanics are consistent. That is they souldn't only apply to monsters but also to characters. If a monster can do it then there should be a corresponding method to allow the PCs to also do it. For example that teleport as a free action issue - very powerful. Now spellcasters can get there via contingency spells and such but this should all be kept in mind when deviating from the RAW. In fact IIRC therer is a specifica caustion in the DMG about changing the RAW.

 

[PissyPeter]

as has already been pointed out - make sure you adjust the CR accordingly.

And make sure your rules/mechanics are consistent. That is they souldn't only apply to monsters but also to characters. If a monster can do it then there should be a corresponding method to allow the PCs to also do it. For example that teleport as a free action issue - very powerful. Now spellcasters can get there via contingency spells and such but this should all be kept in mind when deviating from the RAW. In fact IIRC therer is a specifica caustion in the DMG about changing the RAW.

I appreciate the replies!

A question on this post. Why should the PCs be allowed to do it?

One of my opinions about 3.5 is that it is often "broken" because all of the non-core books and constant rule tweaking is to allow the "PCs to do it."

When did this become an infallible rule?

I believe it is healthy for the PCs to know there are monsters/beings etc. who can do things that they cannot. That no matter how hard they try, there are other planes, levels of magic etc. that they cannot duplicate in exact form.

I realize this requires a fair, consistent dm-ing style (btw, a clarification, I do not make the rulings on the fly - they are usually pre-prepped creatures who are hand placed or are rulings that are presented to the group for discussion if affecting an entire "class" of monster... just to clarify); when/why did it change to making sure the players get to do everything another being/monster can do?

Again, not an iron-clad criticism - but a heartfelt question. To me the goals of the game are adventure, challenge, fun, and knowing that each moment could be your last (obviously if a DM just wants to kill players it doesn't take much... and most players would leave quickly, I hope, if such were the case....) - plus the added bonus of *mystery and the unknown* over a diablo-style stats fest that resembles NWN on paper

The above is not in reaction to the quote posted, but my own wrestlings with 3.5.

Thoughts?

 

[irdeggman]

I appreciate the replies!

A question on this post. Why should the PCs be allowed to do it?

One of my opinions about 3.5 is that it is often "broken" because all of the non-core books and constant rule tweaking is to allow the "PCs to do it."

When did this become an infallible rule?

When 3.0 was created. It is part of the core concepts of the new game. Balance and options for players. Mechanics are supposed to work the same regardless of who (PCs or enemies) are using them.

I believe it is healthy for the PCs to know there are monsters/beings etc. who can do things that they cannot. That no matter how hard they try, there are other planes, levels of magic etc. that they cannot duplicate in exact form.

No problem here. Running away is an often overlooked option.

I wasn't alking about an exact duplication but rather a game mechanic issue. Revising teleoport the way you have done is essentially creating a free immediate action - that can be applied regardless of whether or not the creature has already used his swift action, etc. This is a game mechanic change not a "special" ability (e.g., based on race or type).

[/QUOTE]

 

[PissyPeter]

When 3.0 was created. It is part of the core concepts of the new game. Balance and options for players. Mechanics are supposed to work the same regardless of who (PCs or enemies) are using them.



No problem here. Running away is an often overlooked option.

I wasn't alking about an exact duplication but rather a game mechanic issue. Revising teleoport the way you have done is essentially creating a free immediate action - that can be applied regardless of whether or not the creature has already used his swift action, etc. This is a game mechanic change not a "special" ability (e.g., based on race or type).

[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the fast, and concise, clarification I also agree: running away is an often overlooked option!