DM Question: How can I keep my players from taking 3 days to check a room?

[Uller]

Glad that works for you, but I thought the whole purpose of the Take 10 and Take 20 rules were to prevent rolling hordes of dice.

IceBear

Yeah. Most of my players have exaclty one d20. I usually only have 2 or 3 with me if not playing at home. Gonna roll 20 times? I don't think so. Besides, what if the answer to "How long do you search?" is "Until I'm satisfied that there is nothing to find."

Take 20 does what it needs to do...saves table time. If you're players are abusing it, make the table time from using it boring and clear that they are overdoing it.

 

[Metalsmith]

Here's my nickel thoughts:


In my mind, if you come across a trap when taking 20, you set it off. Boom.
/ds

But can't you take 20 when looking for traps?

Metalsmith

 

[kreynolds]

When you take 20 to search, your inspecting, tapping, whacking, pulling, prying, stamping, stomping, and pretty much trying to do what you can to find false bottoms, rotating walls, hidden compartments, devious illusions, etc.

See pages 61 and 62 of the PH, Checks Without Rolls, Taking 10 and Taking 20.

Besides, when you fail your Search check while looking for traps, you don't set the trap off, you simply fail to find it. You only set the trap off by triggering it, such as walking over a pressure plate, hitting a tripwire, etc, etc, or you set it off by failing at a Disarm Device skill check.

If you rule that you set a trap off when you fail a search check, you could follow that flawed logic and assume that if you fail a search check while looking for treasure, you miraculously stumble over the treasure and see it laying there at your feet. After all, you failed the check, so you "triggered" the treasure.

 

[kreynolds]

I just had another idea that might help.

Make the room smaller.

 

[fba827]

I know lots of this has already been said, but ..

* Supplies (food, light source, water) are not unlimited
* Precious Mage Armor and Bull's Strength Spells will start to wear off and need to be recast - spellcasters may start to get a little annoyed
* If they have horses waiting outside, once or twice, have them come back to missing or dead/eaten horses - the dang things are going to get bored and wander
* Plot-related deadlines -- why are they in the dungeon? Is someone waiting for them? If so, maybe that person sends NPCs as a rescue party (the fact that someone had to send help to find you is an indirect clue that the world is passing and people think you're an idiot taking forever ;-)

Obviously, you have to try and keep this a little subtle or else it will be like hitting the players over the head with a stick and they may get a little bugged by your consistant harrasment of time issues.

It's a delicate balance to say the least.

I guess my point is, they are abusing time because they aren't remembering that time is not an unlimited resource - hence, they need to be reminded.

- fba827

 

[Metalsmith]

In addition If they are spending so much time scouring the dungeon, just use Wandering Damage er Wandering Monsters.

Metalsmith

 

[kreynolds]

* Supplies (food, light source, water) are not unlimited

They can be, if you have a cleric.

* Precious Mage Armor and Bull's Strength Spells will start to wear off and need to be recast - spellcasters may start to get a little annoyed

Most fighters assume the spellcaster will place those spells on them from the onset of a campaign, especially when the spellcaster can make scrolls and he can cast them more often, so it's a little late for the spellcaster to get annoyed now.

* If they have horses waiting outside, once or twice, have them come back to missing or dead/eaten horses - the dang things are going to get bored and wander

Actually, if you tie (in fact, you don't even have to make a knot in most cases) a horse to a tree with a decently long rope, they won't wander anywhere, and they won't try to break the rope unless they are spooked.

Besides, they're horses. Even if not tied up, horses don't just get bored and wander away to the point of not coming back, especially not ones that have been trained for riding, let alone those that have been bred for hardcore adventuring. Wild horses, yes, but not trained ones. They pretty much only take off and not return when they're spooked, and when they are spooked, they return "home" most of the time.

As far as the dead/eaten part is concerned, that's not a bad idea, but one that shouldn't be repeated too often.

I guess my point is, they are abusing time because they aren't remembering that time is not an unlimited resource - hence, they need to be reminded.

Or the DM should place traps with using logical methods. Remember, traps are placed to keep intruders out, but they are also placed in such a way that they don't become a hinderance to the residents of the dungeon. Nothing will tick off an Ogre or Lich more than when has to hop, skip, and jump every 5 or 10 feet just to get across every third room or hallway of a dungeon.

 

[mirzabah]

Can anyone come up with some valid deterants that would make them be more realistic about their searching. I'd rather not have them get jumped by Orcs everytime because it would kind of ruin the suspension of disbelief. They'd know everytime I wanted them to move on I'd hit them with an orc encounter.

You've got guys taking three days to search a room and you're worried about suspension of disbelief? Even forensic examiners would baulk at taking 72 hours to search a room.

 

[Thebalrog]

Nice!

Some great info here, exactly what I was looking for, thanks to all.

Actually to answer some other posters this next time will be my first time DMing for this group. I've played with them as just a player for the last couple months and the whole "3 day searchs" is something one of the other "smart alecky" players came up with and a few others use.

As I will be taking the DM chair for them soon and I didn't want them doing some of the things they usually do with the regular DM (things I tend to think slows the campaign down) I figured I'd get an answer ahead of time on ths issue.

 

[Thanee]

Havn't read it all, but here are my thoughts!

* Taking 20 does not guarantee success!

Just put some nasty traps in, that the non-Rogues are not able to find (DC 20+, see the Rogues Trap ability). Once they have sprung one or two traps while searching, they might become a little more careful, or leave the job to the pros!

* Wandering Monsters!

Well, this has been said often times already.

* Time limit!

Give them a time limit to complete their task, if applicable.

* Let them!

If there is no reasonable time limit, and they really want to dig in the dirt for days, then just let them!

* Disappoint them!

You could describe with colorful mental pictures and to all extend, their heroic search of the dungeon room, which takes hours. Take your time. Describe this scene for 15 minutes or even longer, if you can do that. When they do it again, repeat the process. They should get a feel for how bored their chars will be after a few rooms.

* Encourage Take 10 or Roll Thrice!

Take 10 is a great rule for such an occurance, but most players are aware, that they can't get to high results using this technique, and therefore can miss something. Roll Thrice is a limited Take 20, you just roll three skill checks and take the best result, takes three times as long as a regular application of the skill, obviously. It's pretty good for a careful but not excessive Search.

Bye
Thanee