DM Question Time

[Festivus]

Bah, misread your stopping one: We usually stop on an extended rest when possible... I plan my games for this eventuality. otherwise, we take notes of where we left off and it's a short rest instead.

 

[Hussar]

I'm finding it rather surprising how many here advocate stealing/screwing the players out of their coin. For those who would do this, how do your players react? I know that when I've done this sort of thing in the past, my players have reacted by getting totally bogged down in trying to lock down every single copper piece - elaborate schemes to make sure nothing gets stolen, that sort of thing. It becomes a very antagonistic game with the DM vs the Players.

How do you avoid that?

 

[Celebrim]

Chaotic and dimwitted humanoid rabble might run like frightened animals if morale breaks. I like it when the tactics and behaviors of NPCs/monsters fits their personalities even if what they end up doing isn't very smart.

Oh certainly. I'm not saying everything should be run with the morale of elite troops. Obviously a lot of things will break and run even when doing so only makes their death more certain.

My point was mostly that if you are finding that there are a lot of situations where retreat just doesn't seem to work out, then that at least isn't surprising nor is it necessarily a rules artifact. Tactically speaking, retreat almost never works out especially when you've got no where particular to retreat to.

Retreat works much better at a strategic level, shortening supply lines (while increasing those of the enemy), etc.

 

[Hungry Like The Wolf]

1. I'm lazy and so I just make all my games run on a barter system. Taking money out of the equation and forcing the players the think carefully about what they need and what they want.

2. Character specific items. Use their characters back-stories and development against them. I had one player who wanted to play the wandering swordsman, looking for his son. So I would give him clues and items that were related in his search. Not only was he happy, he wasn't complaining about loot.

3. Lay down the law. Your the DM and it's going to be this way, when your player becomes the DM then you'll do it their way.

4. The more the players rest, the more time the dungeon ecology has time to plan, scheme and ambush. If you think they are gaining an unfair advantage by resting mid-way, I'd just amp up the encounters a notch or two.

5. Perhaps if the bartering system isn't your thing, then a X gold coins per-adventuring day for survival supplies would help resolve two problems in one hit.

6. Instead of XP, I usually lean towards visible or instant rewards. If it's good roleplay in combat I'll give an AP, if it's good roleplay in gathering information then that player will get a huge tip, if it's good roleplaying in general i'll give narrative control etc etc

I do this because I find that weaker roleplayers would rather progress slower and gain XP through battle anyway which gives an unfair advantage to the uber-roleplayers in the group. However, finding other cool ways to reward them has always motivated the weaker roleplayers I've DM'ed for.

7. This depends on the context of the battle. If the monsters are apart of something bigger, something grander then they would tend fight another day. If the monsters are protecting something close to them, they would be more likely to fight to the death.

I tend to just look at the pace of the battle, it's context with in the adventure and the motives of the monsters while deciding exact tactics.

 

[Pbartender]

Oh certainly. I'm not saying everything should be run with the morale of elite troops. Obviously a lot of things will break and run even when doing so only makes their death more certain.

My point was mostly that if you are finding that there are a lot of situations where retreat just doesn't seem to work out, then that at least isn't surprising nor is it necessarily a rules artifact. Tactically speaking, retreat almost never works out especially when you've got no where particular to retreat to.

And it shouldn't, really.

Half the time, I'll have a bunch of bad guys start to withdraw and retreat... Four or five will get cut down before they can really get away, and maybe only one or two will actually escape (which is still often enough to complicate things).

But that's not necessarily a bad thing... A lot of people complain about grindy battles. Retreat or surrender is a good way to shorten a battle in which the outcome is obvious, but in which stats are such that it'll take a long time to finish properly and decisively.

 

[TheClone]

Have an escape plan for the guy. Then a backup plan. Then a backup backup plan. One of these should (if at all possible) include a contingency for "if I can't move my arms or legs".

If all else fails, let them kill the guy. You can always get another NPC.

And this NPC might be the right hand of the now dead villain. Or his boss. There might be a hidden companion of the dead guy that now seeks for revenge or tries to pursue the plans of his former ally or master. Or the master of the dead guy, if there is one, is angry about the PCs killing his "pet" and now has to get involved himself to purse his plans or build up a new "cell of evilness".

 

[Festivus]

I'm finding it rather surprising how many here advocate stealing/screwing the players out of their coin. For those who would do this, how do your players react? I know that when I've done this sort of thing in the past, my players have reacted by getting totally bogged down in trying to lock down every single copper piece - elaborate schemes to make sure nothing gets stolen, that sort of thing. It becomes a very antagonistic game with the DM vs the Players.

How do you avoid that?

I used it as a plot device to get the party into finding out more about the thieves guild. More than just coin was taken, a relic they needed to find out more about was taken too.

They didn't like it but they got the stuff back by the next level, and not all the coin was taken, just a healthy chunk of it.

 

[DaveW]

Thanks guys, this has all been very, very useful.

I go for three factoids, the anecdote, the quirk and the dream. And possibly a fourth, the secret. The anecdote is a single fact about the character's past: "he's served as a general in the Clone Wars". The quirk is something about the character's present: "he's a card player, a gambler, a scoundrel. You'd like him." The dream is something the character hopes for in the future: "I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my father." And the secret, if used, is something the character doesn't want others to know, or something he himself wants to find out: "Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father..."

Just putting together a handful of things like that can give a real iconic feel to the characters, while still leaving loads of freedom for the player to then portray the character. It should help.

I have asked my players to send me this before the next session. Should help! The other players have been helping my errant role-player to flesh out his backstory. I'll try and have some in-character conversations with him in the next session.

Why do they need to see the loot list ahead of time?

There's definitely no need for it, per se. It's just that they really seemed to enjoy rolling for their own loot, so I was thinking of letting them see what they can 'win'. Another thing I'm considering is a deck of random potions; Just having a small deck of item cards that has around 12 healing potions, and one of every potion between level 4 and 10 from the Adventurer's Vault. So there's a good chance they'll get the always useful healing potion, and a good chance they'll get something completely random. A "deck of many potions", if you will. I believe my players would enjoy that; they certainly seem to enjoy the random loot aspect (or the illusion of that ).

Thank again for all the input everyone! This is fantastic.

-Dave