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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8869465" data-attributes="member: 93670">Yes and no.  On the one hand there is the "teach the gm a lesson" crowd of munchkin that's going to do it either way, but not all powergamers are like that.  There's a second type of powergamer who is quite happy to build a monstrosity that keeps a big chunk of their arsenal in the back pocket waiting to be pulled out judiciously if & when the group is in desperate need until it's time to put it back behind a break glass in case of emergency. Unfortunately there no clear divide or convenient name to differentiate the two "know it when I see it" groups in any useful fashion.  Even trying to create a set of terms just opens the door for one group of them to subvert spirit of the terms by the letter.  By being up front about it [spoiler="the GM is doing a bunch of things though"]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Some fraction of those two groups will make an effort to restrain themselves to some degree because the request has been made</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The GM has a strong footing when bob ignores the "no powergaming" request & they feel a need to step in reminding Bob about the line that he was expected to avoid crossing.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If Bob gets salty or tries to claim that the gm is being unreasonable after that reminder the GM has solid footing when they make more hands on or mechanically involved changes</li> </ul>[/spoiler]This thread started out because a gm appears to have made a good faith effort to lay out some expectations during a session zero & the unfortunate results of so many years of the community saying "the gm needs to do session zero... the gm needs to define x y z during session zero or the GM is at fault for any and all problems [the player need not even be mentioned as having responsibilities then]".It's not all that alien.  You just don't see it that often because it tends to be quickly  turned around with  accusations like  "well what did you do", "well you have too many/too strict house rules", "well you should have written better houserules because that loophole a player found is on you", "you need better players" or the ultimate "you have the wrong expectations for the type of game you want to run".In the context of this gm having a session zero where they laid out an expectation of "no power gaming" as a thing at least some point, we could find gobs of articles & videos about things the GM is responsible for doing before/during/after a session zero & all of us could probably rattle off a solid 3-5 things that are unlikely to get much debate but what are the player's responsibilities for a session zero is a topic that I'm not sure I've ever seen tackled.</blockquote>

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