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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8869851" data-attributes="member: 18">Yeah this reflects my experience.And frankly, with better-balanced systems, and that absolutely includes 5E, most powergamers can't even get very far ahead of the "normal" players. Also of powergamers/min-maxers just aren't that good at it. This is even true with internet guide-writers - a lot of the guides to "maximizing your character" and stuff are woefully outdated, and incorporate misunderstandings of the value of abilities, or wild overestimations of how good stuff is (Haste is frequently ludicrously overrated, it's actually only a "pretty okay" spell in 5E, but people often think it's gold/5 stars).Personally I have a min-maxer in my group, and like, god bless him, in the pre-internet-guide days, he was an absolute terror for figuring out horrific synergies or setups in various RPGs, but he doesn't read guides, and the stuff he comes up with, is just like, totally harmless by comparison because 5E is so well-armoured against that (it helps that he's uninterested in primary magic-users, for sure).He has noticed this, I note, because sometimes he does grumble that modern RPGs don't have as much fun stuff to mess with, and it's like buddy, that ain't an accident!Others have explained it, and I dunno if you're interested, but it this comes from an intersection of internet multiplayer gaming culture and D&D 3.5E being having extremely huge variances in how good classes were. Technically I believe one of the Tekken games was the first to have it's characters rated in a tier system in a way that got attention. Lists existed before that but didn't get much attention. That was in 2005, and I believe it was the very next year, 2006, that we saw the first D&D tier list, the tier list form already having matured significantly, and that was of 3.5E classes. It was quite controversial, some people were outraged that one might even attempt such a thing, but I'd largely agree with it myself.Once that had happened, people increasingly started making "build guides" for 3.5E, just as they did for other MMORPGs, CRPGs, MOBAs etc., which resulted in rating individual choices and so on.</blockquote>

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