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DM Says No Powergaming?
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<blockquote data-quote="Warpiglet-7" data-source="post: 8870200" data-attributes="member: 7025282"><p>It’s long so read or skip. Fair warning.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I am no fan of free passes per se but let’s think about this logically.</p><p></p><p>Some patrons don’t even know they are being tapped—-according to text about the Great Old Ones and and the Fathomless.</p><p></p><p>Some pacts are accidental—I.e. Archfey.</p><p></p><p>Warlock spells and invocations are not always attached to a patron. See the Eldritch adept and magic initiate feats.</p><p></p><p>There is no mention of powers being revoked. There are several mentions of “learning” and growing in power. Likewise there is a lot said about a patron being like a mentor. If you learn how to be a silver smith but piss off your mentor, you don’t suddenly forget how to smith. He might stop showing you new skills I presume.</p><p></p><p>The idea that you are “gifted” power with an agreement is supported too. You entreat your patron at times. Some DO strike bargains. Some are masters of contracts from the 9 hells!</p><p></p><p>As a result, you can justify a number of approaches: if you are the DM, your decision is the law in your world. However, it’s a choice to take a hard stand and is NOT hardcoded in the rules.</p><p></p><p>This is a discussion to have with the player—-how you will run it and your expectations. Maybe it’s a negotiation. But it’s not a hard rule of the game—at all.</p><p></p><p>What about from a practical standpoint? Does power revocation or denial help balance of the game? Nope. Warlocks don’t outdo other classes. I love them but they are not out of hand.</p><p></p><p>I usually play warlocks. But if I were to DM them, I would just want to know how the power started and what would be fun to play. Who is the patron? Are you wanting to support or berry them? Or are you wanting to get along and keep advancing?</p><p></p><p>5e has a number of features/bugs which are mostly intentional. The vague nature of pacts and patrons allows for a bigger narrative space. I love it.</p><p></p><p>Players and DMs just have to be on the same page. There is no true answer here. This is about what your campaign and players want and need.</p><p></p><p>I am playing a fiend patron blade boon dwarf. He was a freedom fighter and hates slavery. A demon saw someone with potential and a bad temper. The character does not know the voices from his weapon that push him to kill the evil tyrant sorts is actually way into chaos. In fact, if it can make him savage enough in pursuit of good/freedom, it might just get his soul sent to the abyss but not until it leads him to chaos and evil.</p><p></p><p>He usually tries to be good but the day may come where he gets tricked and slips up big time…</p><p></p><p>Have fun with your group and just have a shared fictional base. You can’t lose.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Warpiglet-7, post: 8870200, member: 7025282"] It’s long so read or skip. Fair warning. I am no fan of free passes per se but let’s think about this logically. Some patrons don’t even know they are being tapped—-according to text about the Great Old Ones and and the Fathomless. Some pacts are accidental—I.e. Archfey. Warlock spells and invocations are not always attached to a patron. See the Eldritch adept and magic initiate feats. There is no mention of powers being revoked. There are several mentions of “learning” and growing in power. Likewise there is a lot said about a patron being like a mentor. If you learn how to be a silver smith but piss off your mentor, you don’t suddenly forget how to smith. He might stop showing you new skills I presume. The idea that you are “gifted” power with an agreement is supported too. You entreat your patron at times. Some DO strike bargains. Some are masters of contracts from the 9 hells! As a result, you can justify a number of approaches: if you are the DM, your decision is the law in your world. However, it’s a choice to take a hard stand and is NOT hardcoded in the rules. This is a discussion to have with the player—-how you will run it and your expectations. Maybe it’s a negotiation. But it’s not a hard rule of the game—at all. What about from a practical standpoint? Does power revocation or denial help balance of the game? Nope. Warlocks don’t outdo other classes. I love them but they are not out of hand. I usually play warlocks. But if I were to DM them, I would just want to know how the power started and what would be fun to play. Who is the patron? Are you wanting to support or berry them? Or are you wanting to get along and keep advancing? 5e has a number of features/bugs which are mostly intentional. The vague nature of pacts and patrons allows for a bigger narrative space. I love it. Players and DMs just have to be on the same page. There is no true answer here. This is about what your campaign and players want and need. I am playing a fiend patron blade boon dwarf. He was a freedom fighter and hates slavery. A demon saw someone with potential and a bad temper. The character does not know the voices from his weapon that push him to kill the evil tyrant sorts is actually way into chaos. In fact, if it can make him savage enough in pursuit of good/freedom, it might just get his soul sent to the abyss but not until it leads him to chaos and evil. He usually tries to be good but the day may come where he gets tricked and slips up big time… Have fun with your group and just have a shared fictional base. You can’t lose. [/QUOTE]
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