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DM Says No Powergaming?
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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 8870459" data-attributes="member: 2629"><p>The question here is what do you do about powergaming. The answer, IMHO, should be: don't mistake it for a problem.</p><p></p><p>[qyuote]If you need to point at YouTube reddit & these forums as examples of <strong>tools 5e provides the gm</strong> you've listed three tools that are explicitly not things that [k]5e<em> provides°. To go on and even suggest specific monsters for a group of a specific level very much calls into question if 5e actually provides[j] any</em> tools for the gm to finesse encounters & even specific PCs as older editions once did. Our of the three tools you listed that are not provided by 5e reddit was created in 2004, YouTube 2005, & it looks like these forums seem to go back to 99 putting them squarely in the time frame of multiple past editions predating 5e. If there are "plenty" provided by 5e itself, why can they not be named</p></blockquote><p>You're awfully focused on where advice is available, and not on whether it is available. I advocate for better advice in the DM book to train DMs on how to handle a variety of issues, but it is a quibble in my mind because the advice is out there in huge amounts.</p><p>Consider that you might be removing people from the table for appearing to be incompatible - when in fact there are many ways in which you can all be at that table, have fun, and walk away super excited to play again - even with powergamers mixed with non-power gamers. It is undeniable that DMs make this work all the time. I fully admit there are some players that are incompatible with the rest of a table - but if you sweep any mix of power gamer and non-power gamer at the same table into this class, then that is a very, broad class and you're going to miss out on opportunities for fun.YOu're making assumptions about pwoergaming that do not hold up at the tables I see. </p><p></p><p>I see powergamers that do it because they like the challenge of building the best. I see others do it because they aree desparate for attention and respect. I see others do it because there is someone specific at the table they want to impress. I see others do it because they want their character, for RP reasons, to be the best. I see others do it because they have an ego the size of the Earth. There are a lot of reasons to powergame - but they're not usually about winning the combats. Most power gamers expect that a DM will power game back at them and make combats more challenging. This isn't always true - but most power gamers I see tend to expect the DM to 'step it up' in response to their PC.So - don't play that game. That is not what we do at my table when we have power gamers. We let them be effective. We applaud them when they are as effective as they plan. We build them up and make them happy - because those players tend to want that response and the rest of the table can provide it without ruining their fun.Your argument falls flat because it is basically arguing that the game tables I've sat at for the last 30+ years do not exist. Having a power gamer at your table trying to optimize their PC only ruins the game if they're a jerk - which is usually in ways independent of their power gaming - or if others make it a problem. If not, you can have fun. I've been at those tables over and over and over again. I've also been at tables where the DM handled it negatively, or certain players handled it negatively - but I've had a lot of luck with getting the tables to try to simmer down and try just riding it out with a positive attitude. It is amazing how well it works when people are actually just having fun.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 8870459, member: 2629"] The question here is what do you do about powergaming. The answer, IMHO, should be: don't mistake it for a problem. [qyuote]If you need to point at YouTube reddit & these forums as examples of [b]tools 5e provides the gm[/b] you've listed three tools that are explicitly not things that [k]5e[i] provides°. To go on and even suggest specific monsters for a group of a specific level very much calls into question if 5e actually provides[j] any[/i] tools for the gm to finesse encounters & even specific PCs as older editions once did. Our of the three tools you listed that are not provided by 5e reddit was created in 2004, YouTube 2005, & it looks like these forums seem to go back to 99 putting them squarely in the time frame of multiple past editions predating 5e. If there are "plenty" provided by 5e itself, why can they not be named[/QUOTE]You're awfully focused on where advice is available, and not on whether it is available. I advocate for better advice in the DM book to train DMs on how to handle a variety of issues, but it is a quibble in my mind because the advice is out there in huge amounts. Consider that you might be removing people from the table for appearing to be incompatible - when in fact there are many ways in which you can all be at that table, have fun, and walk away super excited to play again - even with powergamers mixed with non-power gamers. It is undeniable that DMs make this work all the time. I fully admit there are some players that are incompatible with the rest of a table - but if you sweep any mix of power gamer and non-power gamer at the same table into this class, then that is a very, broad class and you're going to miss out on opportunities for fun.YOu're making assumptions about pwoergaming that do not hold up at the tables I see. I see powergamers that do it because they like the challenge of building the best. I see others do it because they aree desparate for attention and respect. I see others do it because there is someone specific at the table they want to impress. I see others do it because they want their character, for RP reasons, to be the best. I see others do it because they have an ego the size of the Earth. There are a lot of reasons to powergame - but they're not usually about winning the combats. Most power gamers expect that a DM will power game back at them and make combats more challenging. This isn't always true - but most power gamers I see tend to expect the DM to 'step it up' in response to their PC.So - don't play that game. That is not what we do at my table when we have power gamers. We let them be effective. We applaud them when they are as effective as they plan. We build them up and make them happy - because those players tend to want that response and the rest of the table can provide it without ruining their fun.Your argument falls flat because it is basically arguing that the game tables I've sat at for the last 30+ years do not exist. Having a power gamer at your table trying to optimize their PC only ruins the game if they're a jerk - which is usually in ways independent of their power gaming - or if others make it a problem. If not, you can have fun. I've been at those tables over and over and over again. I've also been at tables where the DM handled it negatively, or certain players handled it negatively - but I've had a lot of luck with getting the tables to try to simmer down and try just riding it out with a positive attitude. It is amazing how well it works when people are actually just having fun. [/QUOTE]
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