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Message: <blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 8870733" data-attributes="member: 59057">There are combats even an optimized character can't win. You can say, this is a "rocks fall, you are dead" situation. But I disagree. If you maneuver yourself in a situation where you have to fight overwhelming foes, that is on you, not on the DM.Also: the failure does not always have to result in combat. It can just mean, that they won't get help with soldiers, magic items which means, the party might have to deal with everything on their own. So they might be more specialized for combat, but they also have to face harder combats and thus are in more danger than the normal party. So maybe it is not entirely on the optimizers... sometimes, or even often enough it is the DM who starts an arm's race. If you teach your players, that a failed social encounter always results in a hard combat, of course this is what they start preparing for.I know this feeling as a player. I have built characters that used cunning and illusions and disguises to do things. In some games it was fun. In other games, after the first session I knew, that I should just let this character die and build a fighting machine instead.</blockquote>