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DM Says No Powergaming?
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<blockquote data-quote="Velderan" data-source="post: 8871581" data-attributes="member: 7038056"><p>The bolded part really applies here IMO.</p><p></p><p>As you noted, the PHB says this about a paladin failing repeatedly at their oath:</p><p></p><p>To me, that doesn't read anywhere near as straightforward as you seem to be implying. What does abandon mean? To you it seems to mean they can't take additional levels and need to multiclass but would at least retain what they've learned so far or if allowed by the DM become an Oathbreaker . To others it could mean they lose access to their class powers, since they've abandoned their class it's reasonable to argue they've also abandoned the features of that class. Either way, the rules aren't clear at all. Want an example of clear? Here's what 2e has to say about paladin's committing evil deeds, which would be the closest equivalent to failing their oath:</p><p></p><p>Harsh perhaps, but it's pretty clear what happens. No guess work on what happens to your exp or can you now specialize in a weapon.</p><p></p><p></p><p>5e puts so much of the burden on the DM to figure out what happens because as you've noted in bold the rules often enough can't be bothered to be clear enough so we need Jeremy Crawford to tweet clarifications. I'm 100% in agreement with [USER=6747251]@Micah Sweet[/USER] that errata and tweets shouldn't be used anywhere near as much as they are to cover up for half-defined rules.</p><p></p><p>And before I get the inevitable "if you don't like 5e, don't play it", I do like 5e. The mechanics are for the most part much smoother and I find play generally moves at a better pace than previous editions. I just don't like how the designers were so wishy-washy about clearly defining a lot of things. Hopefully that's something that gets addressed in OneD&D.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Velderan, post: 8871581, member: 7038056"] The bolded part really applies here IMO. As you noted, the PHB says this about a paladin failing repeatedly at their oath: To me, that doesn't read anywhere near as straightforward as you seem to be implying. What does abandon mean? To you it seems to mean they can't take additional levels and need to multiclass but would at least retain what they've learned so far or if allowed by the DM become an Oathbreaker . To others it could mean they lose access to their class powers, since they've abandoned their class it's reasonable to argue they've also abandoned the features of that class. Either way, the rules aren't clear at all. Want an example of clear? Here's what 2e has to say about paladin's committing evil deeds, which would be the closest equivalent to failing their oath: Harsh perhaps, but it's pretty clear what happens. No guess work on what happens to your exp or can you now specialize in a weapon. 5e puts so much of the burden on the DM to figure out what happens because as you've noted in bold the rules often enough can't be bothered to be clear enough so we need Jeremy Crawford to tweet clarifications. I'm 100% in agreement with [USER=6747251]@Micah Sweet[/USER] that errata and tweets shouldn't be used anywhere near as much as they are to cover up for half-defined rules. And before I get the inevitable "if you don't like 5e, don't play it", I do like 5e. The mechanics are for the most part much smoother and I find play generally moves at a better pace than previous editions. I just don't like how the designers were so wishy-washy about clearly defining a lot of things. Hopefully that's something that gets addressed in OneD&D. [/QUOTE]
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