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Message: <blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8875784" data-attributes="member: 6877472">This is such an odd statement.  Of all the rules in the game, why would players revolt at someone enforcing the rules for darkvision?  People complaining about darkvision is super common, often calling for it to be removed from tons of races, saying it prevents certain kinds of play, etc., when, in actuality, the ability isn't really that good- sure, if you're plunged into darkness, you're not blind, just half-blind, so I guess that's kind of advantage, but to me, it's more like some ribbon ability.You're going to want light.  If anything, I find the current iteration of Darkvision to be more problematic for monsters than players- suddenly trying to run adventures in lightless areas like the Underdark just don't work because now the monsters are going to want light so as not to have things sneaking up on them!Now some people are like "well yeah, but once the Rogue gets expertise in Perception, they don't care about -5 passive perception"*, to which I'm like, ok, so maybe they won't get surprised.  Unfortunately, that does nothing for the rest of the party, as you determine surprise by comparing Stealth to the passive Perception of all characters, not just the party spotter.And if the Rogue is scouting ahead of the party, well, if they do get detected (say by some other special sense), that could go pretty badly for the Rogue, lol.*Also, I find this claim suspect.  You'd have to be Tier 5 before Expertise makes -5 irrelevant, and it's not like Wisdom is a high priority ability score for Rogues.  So usually there's something else going on here, likely a Feat like Dungeon Delver or Observant.  And I've run WotC published adventures with some pretty high DC's for secret doors and traps, to where you don't really want disadvantage when trying to find them.</blockquote>

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