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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8875884" data-attributes="member: 93670">The trouble is that a trap won't matter until it slams the session to a crawl or looks very much like the embodiment of hostile/killer GM.  5e tries to downplay attrition so much that traps  placing attrition type consequences simply won't matter much until it sours the session and/or makes the GM look bad.  Take a Party at levels levels 1, 5 8 & 12, assume fighter cleric rogue wizard & all have 12 con for simplicity of the example.[spoiler="HP as follows"]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L1  <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">fighter:  12hp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">cleric : 10hp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">rogue : 10hp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">wizard : 8hp</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L5<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">fighter:  44hp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">cleric : 38hp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">rogue : 38hp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">wizard :  32hp</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L8  <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">fighter:  68hp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">cleric : 59hp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">rogue : 59hp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">wizard : 50hp</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L12  <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">fighter:  100hp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">cleric : 87hp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">rogue : 87hp</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">wizard : 74hp</li> </ul></li> </ul>[/spoiler]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lets say a trap does 2d6 damage(2-12 avg7).  <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">That might matter at level 1 if it rolls well or hits the wizard but  to any of the others you will need many many of them to matter. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It also almost certainly leaves the level one party so low on HP they are probably going to die if there is a fight, the low HP & resource pool for L1 PCs is a big factor here though & they will probably take a rest simply because L1 PCs are so squishy</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bump the trap to 3d6 damage (3-18 avg 10.5).<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The L1 PCs are probably turned into a puff of red mist or demanding a rest while refusing to go further.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The L5 PCs might have noticed it but one more of those this session & the GM can expect to see their game screech to a halt with  full on tomb of horrors style ten foot pole poking of everything.  Worse though it doesn't really matter because the party can take a short rest & rebound if they need to & are starting to build up enough slots to buffer hp with <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/does-%E2%80%9Cwhack-a-mole%E2%80%9D-healing-really-happen-in-games.677252/page-5" target="_blank">yoyo healing</a>.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L8 &12 have barely noticed & probably won't until it starts moving towards like some kind of <a href="https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BulletHell" target="_blank">bullethell</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot_%27em_up" target="_blank">shmup</a>.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bump it to 4d6 (4-24 avg 14)<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">L1 party is highly likely to result in this trap simply downing a PC even on below average rolls but the result is the cleric healing the downed PC & the party saying "[ispoiler]LetsTakeALongRest[/ispoiler]".  That ten foot pole poking is going to look positively reckless compared to what a second one of these will result in.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The level 5 party is going to notice this & begin ten foot pole poking after the second if the first didn't.  Worse though it doesn't really matter because the party can take a short rest & rebound if they need to & are starting to build up enough slots to buffer hp with <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/does-%E2%80%9Cwhack-a-mole%E2%80%9D-healing-really-happen-in-games.677252/page-5" target="_blank">yoyo healing</a>.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Unless it was meaningfully below average on the roll for damage the L8 &12 have noticed & probably won't until it starts moving towards like some kind of <a href="https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BulletHell" target="_blank">bullethell</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot_%27em_up" target="_blank">shmup</a>.  These groups however have plenty of slots for the <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/does-%E2%80%9Cwhack-a-mole%E2%80%9D-healing-really-happen-in-games.677252/page-5" target="_blank">yoyo healing</a> needed to make trolls look squishy</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">So on & so forth.  Traps that deal damage simply don't matter until they are crippling.</li> </ul>The trap could impart some form of status effect like[spoiler="These"]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Blinded:  If a trap needs to dusable darkvision and all other vision in order to matter that says a lot about darkvision eh?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Charmed:  Without fate style compels this does very little & charming PCs tends to be a very slippery slope.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Deafened:  Once upon a time this  imposed a pretty significant chance of failure when casting spells with a verbal component  & even a penalty to initiative.  in 5e however it does neither </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Frightened:  The Party runs away & can't move closer?.... great dungeon....  More likely the players sigh when it wears off & goes through a second third or Nth time all the while growing more & more frustrated... awesome session for /r/rpghorrorstories</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Grappled: Speed becomes zero.  We've found a condition that screeches the session to a halt with more force than tomb of horrors style ten foot pole poking.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Incapacitated:  even more extreme than grappled.  Speed is not zero but the player(s) stiull can't move because they can't do anything.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Invisible:  yippee! a trap that buffs them is going to matter but it's hard to still call it a trap in all but the most technical of technicalities</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Paralyzed: Like Incapacitated but more extreme because there are a bunch of autofail things & bonuses against paralyzed creatures.  commence ten foot pole poking the second this ends</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Petrified: orders of magnitude more extreme than paralyzed but it doesn't usually wear off or it's not too different from paralyzed if it does.  Turbo ten foot pole poking can be expected from a paranoid group moving even slower than the previous tomb of horrors style paranoia.  Top it off with the group taking a long rest or two to stone to flesh/remove curse anyone turned to stone.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Exhaustion1:  disadvantage on ability checks.  Either "so what, my skills aren't useful here" ten foot pole poking or "[ispoiler]LetsTakeALongRest[/ispoiler]".</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Exhaustion2: add half speed:  Either "so what, my skills aren't useful here and I'm a ranged character" ten foot pole poking or "[ispoiler]LetsTakeALongRest[/ispoiler]" followed by "[ispoiler]LetsTakeALongRest[/ispoiler]".</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Exhaustion3:  disadvantage on attacks & saves... Three long rests followed by ten foot pole poking or "lets go somewhere else"</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ehaustion4: Max HP halved - same as exhaustion3 but four long rests instead of only three.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Exhaustion5: Speed reduced to zero... party just nopes out of there & takes 5 long rests before going somewhere else or finding a new table if somewhere else is not provided</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Exhaustion6: death... see exhaustion5 but add one more rest</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">New homebrew conditions with targeted nerfs that matter?... that sounds like the topic for a post on rpghorrorstories</li> </ul>[/spoiler]Nope, Conditions won't help.  That leaves a few more...Novel traps that do things like split the party & force encounters on one or more sides of the split? This either won't much matter & will get annoying fast or flip over to DCC funnel type "encounters" depending on the split if on one side.   If on both sides they become a logistical nightmare unless the game is being run in a VTT capable of simultaneously  tracking locations for both sides of this annoyance.Novel traps that alert monsters the PCs can stomp all over with impunity?...   This probably won't matter until the alerting results in funnel type problems for the partyNovel traps that steal from the PCs?... yea that's going to go over well if the PCs are willing to move from the spot their gear vanished.  tomb of horrors style ten foot pole poking or similar paranoia suited to the situation can be expected.</blockquote>

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