DM : "Your fighter does too much damage. Drop the belt of strength."

[irdeggman]

So does anyone else think that Question (a) wasn't expecting the discussion to go the direction it did, and (b) isn't likely to post much more in this thread? Or am I just being a cynic?

Based on past history in about a week or so there will be another similar post or one on Is this character legal?

 

[Christian]

Actually, PSH, I said "the final ability of the PrC". Personally, I'm more concerned with the Ancestral Guidance ability. I feel that Legendary Force can be overpowered if you build a whole character around it. AG, on the other hand, is essentially a bonus feat that you don't have to meet prereqs for and that you can change each day, and that is a powerful ability in the hands of any player, even if you don't do much min-maxing. It is more powerful that what I originally created, and if you think it's unbalanced, I have no problem with a DM not wanting it in their game.

That one doesn't worry me as much ... It is, after all, not a spur-of-the-moment thing; the RB has to spend the hour at the start of the day acquiring the feat. If he takes Improved Critical, then finds out that the adventure du jour involves a bunch of Knowledge(History) checks rather than combat, well, he's just SOL. 99% of characters will just pick the same feat 99% of the time, whichever of the choices best fits his overall build. So the ability is really just slightly more powerful than a bonus feat chosen from the limited list ... I see your point about strictly enforcing the racial prereqs, though. The *1.5 Strength bonus isn't going to be a huge issue for a standard elf, who won't have an OTT Strength score even if he's maxed for Strength--and your typical min-max elf ranger will more likely be a Dex monster, anyway.

 

[Nac_Mac_Feegle]

Didnt he redo his character sheet after people stated he spent to much, and he then had 14k left?

14k Wont buy a belt of giant strength, problem solved

Feegle Out

 

[delericho]

Didnt he redo his character sheet after people stated he spent to much, and he then had 14k left?

14k Wont buy a belt of giant strength, problem solved

The fix was to reduce his hoy double scimitar +3 (100k) to holy +1 (36k), leaving the belt intact, and giving 14k left over. This went some way towards reducing the damage output of the character (reduce all attack rolls by 2, and all damage rolls by 2), but it had a minimal effect compared with removing the belt, dropping the PrC, or dropping the template.

Basically, it changed the character from a game-breaking illegal character to a game-breaking marginally legal one.

 

[Felon]

Basically, it changed the character from a game-breaking illegal character to a game-breaking marginally legal one.

Well, let me play devil's advocate here. His character is supposed to be 15th level, right? How out-of-whack is he really with the power level of other 15th level characters (assuming equally insane ability scores0?

 

[The_Gneech]

Sigh everyone is fixating on the AC, the skills, or whatever, instead of the strength score and damage, which is the issue here.

GG for not reading first post.

"Everyone is fixating on the fact that my arm has fallen off and ignoring the itch on my nose, which is the issue here."

Dude. The strength score and damage is such a tiny drop in the ocean of issues with this character, that it seems to me that you're the one who's fixating. YOU HAVE MADE A BROKEN CHARACTER, of which insane damage output is just one symptom. If you really want to play this character so badly, toss the stupid belt and be grateful that's all that got hit with the nerf stick!

-The Gneech

 

[delericho]

Well, let me play devil's advocate here. His character is supposed to be 15th level, right? How out-of-whack is he really with the power level of other 15th level characters (assuming equally insane ability scores0?

Honestly?

I don't know. 'Game-breaking' is probably hyperbole in my part.

However, based on my rough judgement, I suspect that that character is significantly more powerful than any 15th level melee-oriented character that you could build using the core rules. True, you can build a half-orc fighter to get the same damage output (or even better it), but I don't think you can build a 15th level character to match him for damage output AND hit points AND armour class AND saves, and so on. When you then add his character's flight ability, and immunity to probably the most common energy damage type in the game...

My gut feeling is that that character is overpowered for his level. I suspect further that that character would hold his own, or even better, many melee-oriented characters of 17th or higher level. At that point, I reckon it's time for a rethink.

 

[Question]

The "problem" : The PC has too high a strength, and is doing too much damage.

The "solution" : Drop the belt of strength to lower the damage.

Is AC a factor? Is the boost to con, or whatever else, a factor? No.

So why the hell are people saying "The PC is broken because of its AC/template/PRC/etc".

Is this relevant? No. The PC is not being told me to drop the belt of strength because of its PRC, or the specific template, or whatever else. Hes being told to drop the belt of strength because its strength is too high.

Ive said things to this effect many times through the thread, only to have people ignore me anyway and start ranting about how im using non-greyhawk material, non-core items, or how the PRC is overpowered, how the template is overpowered, how i rolled too high, even posts which are pure spam/trolling.

The amount of conclusions that are being jumped to in this thread is insane.

There have probably been over half a dozen posts about how my character was disallowed the belt of strength because of an incorrect price for the double scimatar that the DM didnt even notice. Consequently then there were posts along the lines of "Maybe the DM is allowing you to keep the wrong price in exchange for dropping the belt!". Amazing. These guys can probably write an essay on how the september 11 attacks were related to the ratio of births/deaths in uganda 7 years ago.

There were lots(and lots) of posts about how the belt of strength is being disallowed in exchange for the imba template/prc/whatever. How exactly are you people coming to this conclusion is beyond me. Are you the DM in question? No. So why are you insisting the DM is doing this for unstated reason x? We already have a stated reason for the belt of strength being disallowed.....that the strength is too high, and consequently the damage is too high.

There were lots of useless posts on how the DM can do anything because its his campaign. Way to go for spamming something we all know. No one is asking if the DM can do x or y. The DM can run a D20 modern campaign where only whites are allowed to play and the goal of the campaign is to rape and murder as many blacks as possible. WE KNOW.

Quite a few posters somehow managed to establish a link between the non-core items(which again, they ASSUMED the DM refused to allow.....based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever), and the belt of strength being disallowed. Or that they are assuming the belt is being disallowed BECAUSE the non-core items are being allowed.

Several posters(irdeggman notably) have implied that the belt of strength is being disallowed because non-greyhawk material is being used in a greyhawk campaign. This argument assumes the DM is not aware of the sources involved and has not explictly approved them and decided to drop the belt of strength for various reasons. I will stop this crazy point of reasoning now : The DM has approved every single source used in creation of this PC. However im afraid the argument will simply shift to "Well THEN, he must be disallowing the belt of strength because he is allowing you those sources!".

I seriously expected a more mature ability for discussion from the people here. More than 95% of this thread is pure spam, trolling, personal attacks, complaining the PC is imba, complaining that they wont allow the PC in their game or argueing that the PC is not being allowed the belt because the DM has reason X(even though they are not the DM in question), or that the DM can do whatever they want. Props to those who have managed to refrain from doing so.

In response to Elephant's post : I expected people to maybe, discuss about how they would handle the problem if they were the DM, perhaps going over the sheet with the player, nerfing the template/PRC if it was imba.

I did not expect people to insist the belt of strength was being disallowed because non-core items were in the sheet, which they assumed the DM did not allow. Up to now i cannot comprehend the logic behind such an argument. Thats like argueing that a mob boss was given a speeding ticket, not for speeding, but because he ordered the assassination of the senator yesterday.

I expected, maybe, a bit of discussion on whether one should disallow a simple item in order to compensate for something as vauge as "too high damage", or go about other words to solve such a perceived problem.

I did not expect people to start ranting about the template or PRC and whether they would allow it in their game or not. Nowhere does this thread ask to discuss on whether the template is overpowered or whether you would allow it in your games, but i suppose being on-topic is too much to ask.

I expected people to refrain from spamming, trolling or personal attacks. Instead there have been significant amounts of all 3.

Nearly everyone in this thread has formed some strange mis-conception on what the thread is about. Some think this is a thread on whether the PRC is imba. Some think its a "check this sheet for errors please" thread. Some think its to raise their post count. At this point im fairly certain(After numerous attempts to set the record straight, and it being ignored), that people arent going to want to stop posting based on their mis-conceptions, and will just keep spamming away with brilliant lines like "The DM is refusing to allow the belt of strength because of the correlation of saturn's rings in accordance with the moons of jupiter and the alignment of pluto with mars and venus!".

This thread is not going to go anywhere unless a miracle occurs. Please lock.

 

[Piratecat]

I disagree with much of your above post, but I think that's probably best.